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Messages - C_H_R_I_S

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1
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: August 01, 2025, 12:21:49 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on July 30, 2025, 01:55:49 pm
Sorry: conjunctive and disjunctive may be best English.

I dont really understand but I'll add it to my reps and see how i go

2
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: July 28, 2025, 03:15:50 pm »
Quote from: H C Andersen on July 28, 2025, 01:50:11 pm
Out of interest, the advance sign is improper as regards its legality. The sign is prescribed under the regs and conveys:

No left turn for vehicular traffic.

I'll bet a £ to a pinch of RHS that turning left from the main road is not prohibited.

What you cannot do is to drive past the zone signs. I agree that by signing that turning left is prohibited would have the same practical effect - although it's possible to turn into the head of the junction without fully passing the signs - but that sign does not convey a prohibition supported by an order.

A moot point or one which could perhaps be deployed if necessary, who knows?



Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally appeal the Penalty Charge Notice issued under contravention code 53J. I respectfully request its cancellation on the following grounds:

Unclear or Obstructed Signage: The signage orientation is set in a way that is practically invisible until you have already turned onto the street. This is inadequate especically when you consider the speed and througput of the Greenford road. Drivers simply are overwhelmed by other signs and stimuli to be able to safely react to that signage.

Lack of Advance Warning for Certain Directions: When I drive into Greenford Road from Costons Lane on the opposite side of Greenford Road, there is no visible advance signage alerting drivers to the restriction ahead. This makes it especially difficult for drivers unfamiliar with the area to respond appropriately.
The advanced warning sign is also positioned near to a bus stop which means any bus or van can easily obscure the sign from view.

Advanced Warning Sign is legally incorrect:
the advance sign is improper as regards its legality. The sign is prescribed under the regs and conveys:
"No left turn for vehicular traffic"
But turning left from the main road is not legally prohibited.



Recent Signage Installation: This restriction appears to be a new addition to the area. As a regular road user, I had not previously encountered this sign or restriction and had no reason to expect it.

First-Time Offence: If an offence did occur, I kindly request leniency on the grounds that this is my first such incident and was unintentional, caused by unclear visibility and unfamiliar signage.

I hope you will consider these points and exercise discretion in this case. I would appreciate the cancellation of this PCN.


How does this look HCAnderson?

3
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: July 28, 2025, 01:22:55 pm »
Quote from: beedmo on July 22, 2025, 03:00:23 pm
So, I had a little trip up that way earlier. There is an advanced warning sign of the no right turn. The arguments I can see are that there is far more important signage for drivers to pay attention to, like the traffic lights for the pedestrian crossing just before entry into that road.

Even with a decent phone camera, it struggles to read the sign details from closer to the bus stop you see in the dash cam footage than the sign. You'd need someone smarter than me to argue that though. I will simply post my images and dashcam and watch from afar going forward.


Dashcam
https://i.imgur.com/6itzGDq.mp4

Thankyou for this helpful footage Beedmo

AS you can see there is a turning opposite the advanced warning sign that you can turn ONTO greenford road from.
Anyone coming from there would not see this advanced sign.
Maybe your footage of the sign turn could help my case.

4
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: July 28, 2025, 01:20:25 pm »
Yes I recently double checked and can confimr that sign.

I obviously didnt see it or I wouldnt have turned there.

There is also another factor. If you are coming to the turn after just turning right onto that main road you would not see that advanced turn sign.

Also if a bus is on your left it would block those signs.

Given the relatively new life of that sign maybe they would allow it as well?

I will begin to write an appeal if someone with decent legalese could help:::::



Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally appeal the Penalty Charge Notice issued under contravention code 53J. I respectfully request its cancellation on the following grounds:

Unclear or Obstructed Signage: The signage orientation is set in a way that is practically invisible until you have already turned onto the street. This is inadequate especically when you consider the speed and througput of the Greenford road. Drivers simply are overwhelmed by other signs and stimuli to be able to safely react to that signage.

Lack of Advance Warning for Certain Directions: When I drive into Greenford Road from Costons Lane on the opposite side of Greenford Road, there is no visible advance signage alerting drivers to the restriction ahead. This makes it especially difficult for drivers unfamiliar with the area to respond appropriately.
The advanced warning sign is also positioned near to a bus stop which means any bus or van can easily obscure the sign from view.

Recent Signage Installation: This restriction appears to be a new addition to the area. As a regular road user, I had not previously encountered this sign or restriction and had no reason to expect it.

First-Time Offence: If an offence did occur, I kindly request leniency on the grounds that this is my first such incident and was unintentional, caused by unclear visibility and unfamiliar signage.

I hope you will consider these points and exercise discretion in this case. I would appreciate the cancellation of this PCN.

5
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: July 21, 2025, 10:28:38 am »
This forums traffic seems to have died off recently?
Has pepipoo migrated again?

6
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: July 15, 2025, 11:09:36 am »
Quote from: H C Andersen on July 10, 2025, 06:27:57 pm
And no advance warning sign(s)?


Is unclear signage enough?
I have seen an appeal that won with that argument but not sure on exact wording to use,

7
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: July 14, 2025, 09:56:45 am »
Quote from: H C Andersen on July 10, 2025, 06:27:57 pm
And no advance warning sign(s)?


No none that I could see!

You have to be turning before you see the sign and that is a very busy road.

8
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: July 10, 2025, 05:58:21 pm »
I just took pictures of the signage from a road pov.. theres no way a car could see it unless craning their neck, which is a ridiculous requirement for all turns when driving.
So I would argue the signage is insufficient.








9
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« on: July 10, 2025, 02:25:27 pm »
I have just been sent a PCN for this left turn onto costons lane (failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone)

I hadnt a clue and couldnt see the sign at all. It doesnt look like a pedestrian zone either.












GROUNDS OF REPRESENTATION:


COSTONS LANE (Maps hasnt got the signage up yet):
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Costons+Ln,+Greenford/@51.5318565,-0.3494764,3a,75y,203.08h,84.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snjej0DMtUUzHq-wPRbW2vQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D5.871931226502838%26panoid%3Dnjej0DMtUUzHq-wPRbW2vQ%26yaw%3D203.07660494515846!7i13312!8i6656!4m6!3m5!1s0x48761294211ead1d:0x242f5756e10392c6!8m2!3d51.5305006!4d-0.3484013!16s%2Fg%2F1ttdxy7w?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDcwNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D



=======================




The wording of the letter says |the grounds for making an appeal are set out in the form"
And it says you may have to pay £240 if you make representations before 28 days..

THis is such a money grabbing scheme and it was an honest mistake. I think they are new and unclear signs.
Any idea how to appeal it safely?

Chris

10
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« on: January 13, 2025, 01:54:45 pm »
UPDATE:

THey have cancelled the PCN from my informal email..
I just received it when about to appeal :)

Still this road restriction is going to cause a lot of chaos..

I hope a few people go to court on this and get it lifted

11
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« on: January 13, 2025, 01:44:39 pm »
I sent an informal letter but havent heard back yet so Im going to make the first appeal with the usual process.
Could you help me draft it on the grounds of their being poor signage on a fast road and no way to turn back around?

Thank you.

12
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« on: January 07, 2025, 12:11:05 pm »
Correct I have drove down this road many times.

Attempting to reverse and turn out of that road would be extremely dangerous and is a very good point.

I have informally emailled them asking for a warning instead but otherwise will mention the non existent warnings and the inadequate signage at entrance

13
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« on: January 06, 2025, 04:42:02 pm »
Seems this same area is getting a lot of traction:

Same in this thread:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-hammersith-london-rivercourt-rd/

14
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / PCN Rivercourt road 52M
« on: January 06, 2025, 04:36:41 pm »
Turned left off a 40mph Busy A road which ive used for years
Turns out there is now a tiny sign there AFTER the turn saying you cant unless you have a resident permit!

What is happening to our roads these days! :'(  >:(

Images of PCN:





Coordinates of turn - Google Not updated with latest sign post: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4913991,-0.2365586,3a,75y,95.37h,83.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9upYEORyBaITDvU1DLs9iQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D6.174312605000438%26panoid%3D9upYEORyBaITDvU1DLs9iQ%26yaw%3D95.36975487709302!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

My reason to appeal would be insufficient signage but im not sure how to word it or add anything else.
I am willing to go to court for this as the restriction is ridiculous and the signage even worse.


15
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Parked on Pavement (with pavement parking markings)
« on: December 03, 2024, 09:44:36 pm »
Quote from: stamfordman on December 03, 2024, 07:36:30 pm
I think the issue here is an adjudicator would go along with the parked in marked signs in the area if the council got its act together with its evidence pack.

But this could be trumped with finding out that they haven't designated specific bays only as footway exemptions from the resolution.

Is what I think Mr Anderson is saying. 

As you are only at the first stage I think you should have a go.

Having a go and losing costs an extra $55!

Sadly

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