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Messages - G6PRK

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61
Private parking tickets / Re: Open Parking – Parked on a crosshatch – University of Liverpool carpark”
« on: March 17, 2025, 08:22:44 pm »
I note you've made some changes. There is still some detail in there I'd be inclined to remove.

The parking operator cannot pursue you as the keeper as the NtK fails to meet the requirements of PoFA - specifically: 

Paragraph 8(2)(a) - Failure to Specify the Period of Parking The NtK only lists a single moment in time rather than the actual period the vehicle was parked.

There are probably other failures to but my brain isn't working and it doesn't really matter at this stage.

Since you have missed the chance to appeal, you have two options:

1. Ignore the NtK and the likely debt collection letters to follow
2. Complain to the operator, including details of an appeal as follows:

Quote
PCN No: [PCN NUMBER]
Vehicle Registration Mark: [VRM]

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Open Parking has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. You are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Any mitigating circumstances are irrelevant at this stage. And in your case, I don't imagine they'd get you anywhere in court either. The chances are it will never make it there and if they do, I would offer you a 99%+ chance of success if you follow the advice on this forum.

Rest assured that there is no risk of a CCJ. Even if it proceeds to court - so long as you pay you will have no issues.

62
Private parking tickets / Re: Parking ticket from work carpark. Open Parking
« on: March 17, 2025, 07:37:38 pm »
Can I suggest you read the following and adjust your thread accordingly: https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/

63
Private parking tickets / Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« on: March 17, 2025, 06:11:30 pm »
Waste of time going after APCOA directly at this stage - they got paid, that's all they exist to do.

You didn't pay them so what would you go after them for?

64
Private parking tickets / Re: G24 parking ticket - Argos Burnley 2020
« on: March 17, 2025, 05:15:33 pm »
The good news is this will likely never go to a hearing.

For now, respond to the LoC as follows:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Letter of Claim dated [Date]

I refer to your Letter of Claim.

I confirm that my address for service at this time is as follows:

[YOUR ADDRESS]

Please note that the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be robustly defended.

I note that the sum claimed has been increased by an excessive and unjustifiable amount, which appears contrary to the principles established by the Government, who described such practices as “extorting money from motorists.” Please refrain from sending boilerplate responses or justifications regarding this issue.

Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I require specific answers to the following questions:

1. Does the additional £70 represent what you describe as a “Debt Recovery” fee? If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT? If inclusive, I trust you will explain why I, as the alleged debtor, am being asked to cover your client’s VAT liability.

2. Regarding the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge Notice (PCN): Is this being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or will it be pleaded as consideration for a purported parking contract?

I would caution you against simply dismissing these questions with vague or boilerplate responses, as I am fully aware of the implications. By claiming that PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt recovery element, your client – with your assistance – appears to be evading VAT obligations due to HMRC. Such mendacious conduct raises serious questions about the legality and ethics of your practices.

I strongly advise your client to cease and desist. Should this matter proceed to court, you can be assured that these issues will be brought to the court’s attention, alongside a robust defence and potentially a counterclaim for unreasonable conduct.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]

Send it to info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself.

If/when you receive a claim form, come back and the good folks around here will help you file your AoS and defence.

65
Private parking tickets / Re: G24 parking ticket - Argos Burnley 2020
« on: March 17, 2025, 04:59:46 pm »
Show us the letter of claim with personal information redacted.

66
Private parking tickets / Re: Luton Express drop off, APCOA no PCN sent instead Debit Recovery Notice
« on: March 17, 2025, 03:25:27 pm »
If you are certain they hold and have always held the correct address (i.e. you haven't moved at any point during the timeline) there is basically no risk here.

APCOA don't typically litigate so the worst case scenario here is likely a series of debt collector threats for a few years.

Your options are:

1. Ignore the debt collectors up until the (unlikely) event there is a Letter of Claim - ensure you inform them if your address changes
2. Send a formal complaint, including the recommended appeal wording below, pointing out that they must consider it an appeal per the private parking sector single Code of Practice.

Quote
I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Luton Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Luton Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and NCP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

67
Private parking tickets / Re: Britannia Parking overstayed 3 hour limit.
« on: March 17, 2025, 12:42:08 pm »
You're right to be suspicious of their angle - but it's not completely unheard of for these sorts of things to be dropped.

If they can get into their tiny minds "this person was a genuine customer and only overstayed for a few minutes, therefore we'd have no hope in court" they may well drop it.

68
Private parking tickets / Re: Britannia Parking overstayed 3 hour limit.
« on: March 17, 2025, 12:17:09 pm »
I think you may be overthinking this - which is certainly better than under-thinking it!

You may be right that they're trying to catch you out, but on the off chance they are willing to consider evidence that the driver had a right to be there, there's no harm in supplying it. Just be careful with your wording

i.e. "Further to your email XYZ, and referring to appeal XYZ, the driver has supplied me with the following receipt. I trust this will be enough for PCN to be cancelled"

--

As an aside, I note in your appeal and reply you are talking about "getting to the driver identification stage" - to be clear there is no such stage. You do not need to identify the driver. If there is no POFA compliance, they cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known keeper. If there were POFA compliance they could, but you will still likely appeal as the keeper, not shift liability of your own accord.

69
Private parking tickets / Re: Moorside Legal - Help
« on: March 17, 2025, 11:52:48 am »
Yes, that's correct. I assume your attachment in the first post was a Letter of Claim? You cropped it below where the subject line would be, but it looks to be one.

You respond with this now. They must reply, though their reply will be nonsense most likely and they'll still proceed to claim. Post their reply when it comes.

Then, post the claim form here when you receive it. It's likely they will make a mess of the Particulars of Claim and it will therefore easily be defended and likely never go to court.

70
Private parking tickets / Re: Moorside Legal - Help
« on: March 17, 2025, 11:40:45 am »
No need to apologise - most have been there - just let it be a lesson for next time!

Have a search around the forum for Moorside Legal - you will see that on the occasions they do issue claims, their incompetence means they fail to do so correctly and thus there's an extremely low probability it ever goes to a hearing.

I am pasting next steps, courtesy of b789 from another thread, which is likely to apply here. That said, it wouldn't hurt to wait for b789 to pop up with any reflections on your case specifically:

Quote from: b789 on February 07, 2025, 08:28:01 am
This will never make it as far as a hearing. Moorside Legal are so incompetent that they will issue the claim with defective particulars. For now, respond as follows:

Quote
Moorside Legal
Jade Building
Albion Mills
Albion Road
Greengates
BD10 9TQ

By email to: help@moorsidelegal.co.uk

[Date]

Dear Sirs,

Re: Letter of Claim dated [DATE]

I refer to your Letter of Claim.

I confirm that my address for service at this time is as follows:

[YOUR ADDRESS]

Please note that the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be robustly defended.

I note that the sum claimed has been increased by an excessive and unjustifiable amount, which appears contrary to the principles established by the Government, who described such practices as “extorting money from motorists.” Please refrain from sending boilerplate responses or justifications regarding this issue.

Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I require specific answers to the following questions:

1. Does the additional £70 represent what you describe as a “Debt Recovery” fee? If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT? If inclusive, I trust you will explain why I, as the alleged debtor, am being asked to cover your client’s VAT liability.

2. Regarding the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge Notice (PCN): Is this being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or will it be pleaded as consideration for a purported parking contract?

I would caution you against simply dismissing these questions with vague or boilerplate responses, as I am fully aware of the implications. By claiming that PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt recovery element, your client – with your assistance – appears to be evading VAT obligations due to HMRC. Such mendacious conduct raises serious questions about the legality and ethics of your practices.

I strongly advise your client to cease and desist. Should this matter proceed to court, you can be assured that these issues will be brought to the court’s attention, alongside a robust defence and potentially a counterclaim for unreasonable conduct.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]

Save as a PDF file and attach to an email addressed to help@moorsidelegal.co.uk and also CC in yourself.


71
Private parking tickets / Re: Britannia Parking overstayed 3 hour limit.
« on: March 17, 2025, 11:32:00 am »
Would be useful to see the actual wording of your appeal.

72
Private parking tickets / Re: Moorside Legal - Help
« on: March 17, 2025, 11:21:04 am »
Not sure where you got that information but for the sake of anything in the future, there are only two places worth looking really, here and MSE. Both advise appealing at the first stage at the very least.

Nevermind, you are where you are now and still have a higher than 99% chance of success.

Do you have the original NtKs still? If so, post them here with personal information redacted.

73
Private parking tickets / Re: Moorside Legal - Help
« on: March 17, 2025, 10:59:34 am »
Never try to talk to these people.

Yes, you should respond to a letter of claim, it's a last ditch effort to stop them proceeding to court but even if they do, if you follow the advice around here you'll have an extremely high chance of success.

Do you have the original Notice to Keepers that were sent to you? Did you appeal them or have you ignored from the start?

74
Private parking tickets / Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« on: March 17, 2025, 10:46:31 am »
Wow. The stupidity and incompetence is strong with that one. It's wild how they have completely failed to address 99% of your complaint and have responded as if you haven't pointed out extremely clearly that the unregulated parking company has no "authority" whatsoever.

I imagine b789 will have some choice words for you to reply with...

75
Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking PCN - Parked in excess of the permitted free time (ANPR) - Tottenham Hale Retail Park
« on: March 14, 2025, 08:09:29 pm »
You're absolutely right, the vast majority, if not all PCNs are predatory. If you are prepared to fight these people all the way, and follow the advice on this forum, it is highly unlikely you will ever pay a penny.

The first thing you should do is complain to the relevant retailer(s) and ask them to get the charge cancelled if you haven't already done so. Stress (politely) that you don't expect to be harassed by unregulated and predatory parking companies as a result of being a customer in their establishments.

Next, appeal as instructed in the NtK. You could wait til nearer the deadline if complaining to retailer(s).

Make sure that the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

You're absolutely right to question the date of receipt - and this will be one of your points of appeal at POPLA when it likely progresses to that stage. The private parking sector single Code of Practice requires operators to provide proof of postage in situations such as this.

Use the following as your appeal (with regards to b789). No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
PCN No: [PCN number]
Vehicle Registration Mark [VRM]

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Smart Parking has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Smart have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.


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