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Messages - G6PRK

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
16
Thanks for that @b789.

Within about 20 minutes of sending the follow up this morning I got a response to my previous email:

Quote
Dear [Name],

We are currently reviewing the points raised in your complaint and a full response will be issued to your complaint in due course.

Thank you for your patience during this time

Kind regards,
[Name]
Complaints Handler
APCOA

Good old 'due course'.

17
I've received nothing following my reply to their useless response to my complaint. Their complaints policy states 28 days to respond fully to a complaint, or if it will be longer, they'll let me know, which they haven't surprise surprise. As such I'm going to reply again, pointing that out.

@b789 / anyone else with a view - is there any escalatory language you would suggest in that reply?

Additionally, I wonder given there is a data protection element, and somewhat just for fun, if it might be with a SAR at this stage? Any thoughts on that / any suggested wording? It's been a few years since I've done one.

18
Private parking tickets / Re: NSGL - Ticketed while at event
« on: April 04, 2025, 06:46:42 pm »
@b789  Thank you so much for your reply. The front page of the Charge Notice was on my OP, and the second page is now attached to this one. I've not complained to the university yet - if you think that is the best port of call, I can do that, but it'd be hard to do so without identifying myself, if that'd be an issue later.....?

@ disgruntchelt  Thanks loads re the offer on signage - I'll keep that in mind, it's v kind of you!

Complaining to the landowner is always the best course of action. Especially in a case where representatives of the landowner specifically told you it was okay to park.

You can identify yourself as the keeper of a vehicle being pursued for a parking charge without creating any issues down the line.

19
Period of Parking

20
Personally I would take the debt collector letters and use them as free toilet paper.

21
Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking Fine
« on: March 31, 2025, 09:51:40 pm »
The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
PCN No: [PCN Number]
Vehicle Registration Mark: [VRM]

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your ‘parking charge’. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Smart has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Smart have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

22
They can't hold you liable as keeper so move on with your life

23
The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
PCN No: [PCN Number]

Vehicle Registration Mark: [VRM]

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your ‘parking charge’. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Horizon has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Horizon have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

24
You should re-upload, redacting your personal information.

25
Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking Fine
« on: March 31, 2025, 07:25:03 pm »

26
It's a real shame you didn't come here more quickly! You've made a number of errors already but I'm sure the regulars will help as best they can.

1. You did the right thing in replying to the letter of claim, but it sounds like you probably outed yourself as the driver which immediately removes one point of defence. Please post exactly what you said in that response.

2. Yes, the first letter, which should say Notice to Keeper at the top - it will likely include dates/times/photos of the alleged contravention

4. Yes, that's the claim form - but remove and re-upload redacting the claim number and password.

5. Please post what you submitted as your defence and their response

27
I will also defer to more learned members of the forum RE the possible Byelaws point, but...

1. You say the court claim was the first you'd heard of it through not opening mail? Did you not open your mail for months?

2. Do you have the original Notice to Keeper? If yes, post it with personal info redacted.

3. Am I understanding right that prior to the court papers, you have not responded to anything at all (appeal, debt collectors etc.) and therefore have not named the driver?

4. Post the Claim Form with personal info redacted (Particulars of claim are important, as is whether PE are litigating themselves or outsourcing to a bulk litigator)

5. What stage are you at? Have you acknowledged service? Have you filed a defence? You mention their 'proposal' to reduce the charge - how did they make that proposal?

Rest assured that if you follow the advice on this forum you will not receive a CCJ. To be clear - a CCJ doesn't 'just happen'. You would first have to go to court and in the unlikely event you lose would still have 30 days to make payment without a CCJ hitting your file. Even in that unlikely event, the amount 'owed' is unlikely to be substantially more than what it is now, so there's no advantage to paying now.

28
Yes, always complain if you can!

Not sure how useful it will be in these specific circumstances (since the driver wasn't a customer etc.) but it's always worth a try.

29
I'd missed that point.

Show us the exact wording of your comms with the parking company @Dcblsucks

As others have said, don't contact the debt collector. What do you even hope to 'put on hold' at this stage? The sooner the PPC issues court papers, the sooner you can defeat them and move on.

Right now there is little more that you can do. Aside from answer the questions above so the forum can help more effectively when the time comes. Additionally:

What steps have you taken to get the landowner to insist the PPC cancel the PCN?

Have you completed the DRN to ensure all future correspondence go to the correct address?

30
Wild that they're saying no grace period applies while being signed up to follow the PPSSCoP. Alas, just one way in which they and others are non-compliant. Nevertheless it's a requirement, as is a consideration period.

Per the PPSSCoP:

Quote
As a matter of contract law, drivers need to be given an appropriate opportunity to
understand and decide whether to accept the terms and conditions that apply should they
choose to park a vehicle on controlled land. The amount of time needed varies according
to the nature and size of the premises, and in car parks open to the public includes the
time needed to find and access a vacant parking bay, or to leave the premises should the
driver decide not to park, hence the need for a consideration period before the contract
between the driver and the parking operator is made. It is also a requirement to allow a
grace period in addition to the parking period where parking is permitted, and all terms and
conditions have been complied with.

Borderline hilarious that their pictures only show a 6 second window. How could a driver consider the terms of parking, or be considered to have parked in 6 seconds.

RE the form, yes you can fill all that, they have all but your email address anyway, and they'll need that to send your rejection.

The only watch out on the form is if they ask you to provide your relationship with the vehicle. Remember you are appealing as the keeper.

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