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Messages - Enceladus

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31
You've been to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal and the Adjudicator found against you, and further ordered you to pay the penalty charge within 28 days. There's nothing you can do about that now, no matter what the Council did or didn't say.

You didn't pay so the matter progressed through Charge Certificate which increased the charge by 50%. And now to an Order for Recovery which has added a further £10.

The TPT was the end of the road. I suggest you pay the OfR immediately, certainly before the 9th October. If you don't pay then the matter will escalate to the bailiffs which will add a minimum of £75 to the bill. And a further £235 if they visit your house.

32
You've redacted the vehicle reg form the posted document. You are explicitly told not to redact the PCN number and the vehicle reg in the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky post to be found at the top of this forum.

What is the vehicle reg?

Is the Notice of Enforcement addressed to you at your address? Or might it be addressed to a company? Or perhaps a lease company?

I ask because you seem to be missing most of the statutory notices. The postal PCN, Charge Certificate and the the Order for Recovery. So where did they go to?

The PCN and subsequent notices would have been sent (served) to the person or entity at the address held by the DVLA as being the Registered Keeper at the time of contravention. The RK is presumed to be the owner of the vehicle and is liable for the penalty. Are you the RK?

Do you know the date of the original PCN?

The DART people are normally pretty good at cancelling PCNs for a first offence. They also had problems with collecting the charges in the past. Might the failure to pay the charge have happened before you set up the auto-pay?

35
Please post up a list of all the PCNs and Notices to Owner that you received. Include the PCN number, the date of contravention and the date of the NTO where applicable. And please identify the PCN that you paid at the impound yard.

What's the reg number?

36
This is a PCN served on-site, so the first challenge is an informal representation. Newham always reject informal representations. It's a tactic to intimidate you into paying up.

To take the matter further you will have to wait for the Notice to Owner and submit a formal representation (challenge). And if this is refused you'll need to submit an appeal to the Adjudicator. If you were to lose you would be liable for the full penalty, not the discount amount.

The NTO will be posted to the registered keeper of the van. So is your Father the RK or might it be a lease company or an employer? And is the address current and correct. It's best to actually check the V5c, assuming Dad is the RK.

Please post up the PCN. Leave everything visible, including  the vans's reg number and the PCN number. Let's assess your chances with the Adjudicator.

37
Hello. 

I used the Blakwell and Silvertown Tunnel on the way back from Folkstone Eurotunnel and didn't pay the charge.  It was a genuine mistake as I haven't used the tunnel for at least 10, if not more, and then is was free.  The charges have only been in place since April this year and I would have paid if I was aware, I missed the signs (not a good excuse I know)

I have already sent a letter based on a thread I saw here, but it has been rejected and the fine is £90, which is very high and something I really cant afford right now so any help would be greatly appreciated.  I'll post all correspondence below.  Thanks in advance.

PCN and REPRESENTATION RESPONSE from TFL:

https://ibb.co/prrnGnKN

MY RESPONSE TO PCN: 

Dear Sir/Madam

I recently received a Penalty Charge Notice for using the Blackwall or Silvertown Tunnel YJ8642801. This came as a complete surprise, as I wasn’t aware the tunnels are now subject to a charge. I didn't notice any signs on the day and would have paid the fee had I realised it was required.

From what I’ve read, this is a new scheme and I understand there may have been a period where warnings were issued instead of fines. Unfortunately, I didn’t receive any such warning and this was my first time using the tunnel since the new charge began.  I was returning from holiday and I normally use the Dartford Crossing but on this occasion,  there were traffic issues and I was redirected to the Blackwall or Silvertown Tunnel.

I’m kindly asking if you’d consider cancelling the PCN on this occasion. I am happy to pay the fee for using the tunnel, which I would have done on the day if I had been aware this was required. 

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I’d really appreciate your understanding.

Kind regards
As I understand it, you've already submitted a formal representation (challenge) and been rejected. In that case the Notice of Rejection should  include information on how to appeal to the independent adjudicator.

Seems to me that TFL were initially lenient with first offenders, especially with the Blackwall Tunnel which has historically been free. Your PCN is for the Blackwall Tunnel. Looks like leniency has gone. If you appeal then you'll be in for the full penalty of £180 if you lose.

The contravention is black and white, either you drove through the tunnel or you didn't. Since you did, I'm not sure if there's any defence.

Please post up the Notice of Rejection so we can check for any errors with it. Please only redact/obscure your name and address.

38
My wife received same PCN. Didn't know it want free anymore. Any advice?
@gainz
Please start your own thread for the best and most comprehensive advice.

39
@maks
Newham Council have a Penalty Charge Enquiry Form here.

It must be fairly new as I have not come across it before.

Please fill in the form for PCN PN39936195 to see can you get a copy of the Notice of Rejection,  allegedly sent on the 28th October 2024. And fill in any further required details, such as your name and address, phone number etc.

Select the first option in the drop down box (Please select the nature of your enquiry) at the top, ie "I have submitted a PCN challenge or representation, but have not received a response".

Please take a screen print of the form submission page.

Please don't go into any unnecessary details about this PCN and don't mention the other four PCNs. The objective is to get sight of the Notice of Rejection for PCN PN39936195

40
@maks
You are being selective with the questions you answer and this is not helpful.
So once again, have you or have you not contacted Bailiff Advice Online for advice on how to negotiate a staged payment plan with Rundles?
and
Is the letterbox at the E13 8AY address shared with others or is it private to you?

And now, have you checked your email spam folder?

You don't seem to be facing up to the realities of your situation. You were repeatedly parked in a Permit Parking Area (PPA) apparently without a valid permit for the car. On at least five times that we know of, so eventually your car was towed to the impound yard. No signs are required within the zone, only at the entrance(s) to the PPA.

As things stand all five PCNs appear to be valid and also the tow-away. At this stage it's highly unlikely that you'll get any of the five PCNs overturned unless you can clearly show that the Council has made some sort of fundamental error.

Do you now have a permit for the car?

It's a good idea to go to Councillor Morris's surgery. But please don't get angry with him about your situation. It's his job to help you get answers from the Council, so keep him on your side.

He cannot try to influence the outcome of your PCNs, however he can help you to get a proper response to your subject access request.

Once a proper response is provided we might be able to show that the Notice of Rejection for the tow was never properly served. And if you did submit formal representations against the other four PCNs then the evidence will be there. At the moment you haven't shown us any such evidence and the PCNs have escalated to bailiff enforcement.

41
How do these data address the threshold requirements for a review and under which grounds?

Was that aimed at me?

I simply asked @cp8759 whether he was considering an application for review. I did not make any comments or suggestions on the merits or otherwise of doing so. In fact, we don't even have all of the appeal submission so we could not do so.

I then posted a FOI request about this particular location and the contravention as a matter of general interest. Sadly a mere 0.37% of all of the PCNs issued reach the Adjudicator. And only slightly more than half of those that do prevail.

42
Are you considering an application for review?

The below FOI request might be of general interest. 44 allowed vs 35 refused, for the handful of cases that reached the tribunal.

"EIR Reference:      FOI-2025-001089
Date:            6th June 2025

Environmental Information Regulations 2004
Subject: Royal Albert Way E16/Gallions Roundabout
 
We write with regard to your recent enquiry for information held by the Council under the
provisions of the Environmental Information Regulations 2004.

Request and Response 
 
1. How many PCN tickets have been issued on royal Albert Way E16 - Gallions Reach
roundabout the last 3 years? 
 
21,521 PCNs issued at Royal Albert Way E16 / Gallions Roundabout E16 from
25th August 2023 to 14th May 2025.
 
 
2. How many have been appealed and has been successful? 
 
4,357 Formal representations were received of which 218 cases were successful.
 
 
3. How many of them went to court and was cancelled by court order? 
 
79 decisions were appealed of which 44 were allowed at Tribunal."

43
Try sending the email suggested below to InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk and copy john.morris@newham.gov.uk
At the bottom I have put your phone number as 07nnn-nnnnnn. Please correct that to your actual phone number.
And please stick to the issue of the SAR. Please don't add any complaints about signs and so on.

Put "Complaint - Subject Access Request IRR 2025-001304" in the email's subject line".

Post up the acknowledgement emails when you get them.

Getting your information about the PCNs from the Council is one issue. Rundles are a parallel matter. So I still strongly advise you to contact Bailiff Advice Online for advice on negotiating a payment plan with Rundles. Phone them.



Sirs,

Re: Subject Access Request IRR 2025-001304

On July 23rd 2025 this SAR was submitted to the council via the online portal provided for this purpose and an acknowledgement email was received, also on the 23rd July.

To date I have not received the council's substantive response nor any explanation for its lateness.

On August 25th I wrote again via email to InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk pointing out that the response to the SAR was now overdue. Again I received an acknowledgement. This acknowledgement advised that a response to my SAR would be sent by the 12 September 2025.

Once again I have not received any response nor any reason for the failure to comply with your own deadline.
 
I would be grateful if you would look into this as a matter of priority. Please let me have a full response to my SAR within seven calendar days via post and email. Else I will be compelled to consider escalating your failures to the Information Commissioners Office.

For the avoidance of doubt my postal address is:
Viktors Tocinskis
114 Howards Road
London
E13 8AY

and my email contact is;
e4e@inbox.lv

and my phone number is
07nnn-nnnnnn

Yours faithfully,


@maks.
Did you send the follow up email from the template above to Newham Council's Information Rights Team and copied to Councillor John Morris? Yes or no?

and

Did you get back in touch with Bailiff Advice Online to see what help they might be able to give to you about negotiating a payment plan with Rundles? Rundles is a legitimate firm of Enforcement Agents employed by Newham. Enforcement agents are also known as Bailiffs.

If you don't get Rundles under control then sooner or later your car will be clamped, impounded and then auctioned off to pay the charges and additional sale fees.

44

... Do the documents you provided have your correct and current address? And is that the E13 8AY address? And please confirm that you actually live there?...

... You wrote twice (and a third garbled letter) to the London Tribunals and they sent their responses to an address that is six years out of date, even though that is not the correspondence address you provided.
The Tribunal could only have received that address from the Council...

... Might there be something else going on that you haven't disclosed?...

Re the Tribunal replying to the wrong address.  In reply #149 Maks said:

"In the photo of the letter and envelope you can see my address, but in the reply I painted over my old address from 6 years ago"

Now I'm not certain what that means(!), but it would be consistent with the OP inadvertantly supplying an old address to the Tribunal.

If that is so, I wonder if (accidentally) he also supplied the wrong address to Newham when he made his representaions and that is where the NORs have gone(?)

If only it were that simple.

The two good letters sent to the Tribunal were sent by post, recorded delivery. @maks posted up photos of the letters and they had the E13 8AY address. As I recall the first garbled letter might not have had any correspondence address on the letter except for the return address on the envelope.

The posted copy of the Tribunals first refusal to schedule an appeal never arrived. However the letter was subsequently received attached to an email. @maks scrubbed the address on the emailed copy before posting it up. Later we were shown the address, an address in E12 5AZ.

The E13 8AY address was also on the V5c and all of the documents received at the impound yard. It's also on 4 sets of NTOs, Charge Certs, OfR and bailiff Notices of Enforcement, all of which @maks received. And also on two non-statutory follow up letters from Rundles.

So I'm confident that @maks has been using the correct address. And the only way I can explain the E12 5AZ address on the Tribunals letter is that the Council gave it to the Tribunal and they used it despite the address on @maks letter.

Despite several requests Newham have not provided the original Notice of Rejection and nor have they provided it in response to his SAR request and follow ups.

In addition this whole unfortunate tangled mess appears to have occurred because @maks did not have a valid parking permit for the car. In one of his posts told us that he had a lot of difficulty with his permit application. Including that at one point a permit was issued but with an incorrect address and presumably for the wrong parking zone.

This is why we submitted an SAR to get sight of all the documents related to all 5 PCNs.

45
@maks

Please read my posts #258 and #260 above. I wrote out an template email for you. I asked you to send the email to "InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk and copied to john.morris@newham.gov.uk".

And I also asked you to post up anything that came back.

I don't see any acknowledgement receipt emails from the InformationRightsTeam or from Councillor Morris that dated after Sept 12. Only the older receipts from July and August. So have you sent the email or not? If you haven't sent it then please get that done urgently

I also pointed out that getting all the documentation from the Council via the SAR and that dealing with Rundles are parallel matters. You cannot ignore Rundles. They can and likely will impound your car and will auction it off.

I assume you want to keep your car so I advised you to approach Bailiff Advice Online for advice on negotiating a staged payment plan with Rundles.

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