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Messages - correcthaunt

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16
Just a quick update that I got the below e-mail from them confirming the attendance. Don’t think there is any action on my part as the claimant hasn’t been in touch.



17
Understood and thank you for clarifying.

I must have misremembered your previous advise as I thought this would never go to court.

I just re-read the posts and in your reply #5 from December 09, 2024, 04:13:15 pm where you said "Eventually the case will be allocated to your local county court and you'll receive a date for a hearing if the claim hasn't already been struck out. The claimant has to pay the £27 trial fee around a month before the hearing. They will discontinue before having to pay that fee. If they don't and you are the only one out of thousands I will have seen that has to go all the way to a hearing, you'd have to make your Witness Statement and send it to the court no later than (usually) 14 days before the hearing."

This was always going to be allocated and it's all as you've previously explained.

18
Hi @b789,

So did I pick the wrong option? Or this being allocated to the local court was always the route?

If I made a mistake can I fix it?

19
okay I was under the impression that it's not for the claimant to decide if this goes to court and just wasn't sure if me saying I want the judge to decide was skipping that part.

20
Hi @DWMB2 & @b789,

I just had my call and was told that although the Original cost was £259.88 they are willing to reduced to £200.

I was then explained the below options:

Option 1 - they took the deal
Option 2 - take it to the court
Option 3 - I want to sort it out, but not for the £200 they have offered.

I explained I wanted Option 2 and the representative said he would mark this as not settled and that the court/judge would review it and decide if this goes further.

Is this correct? If not should I call or email them?

21
Claim History was updated
DQ sent to you on 21/01/2025
DQ filed by claimant on 21/01/2025
You filed a DQ on 28/01/2025

And I got a Confirmation e-mail for a Mediation Appointment in early March. I do have a couple of questions regarding the e-mail:
1.
Quote
You must make sure you have provided us with, or confirmed, the name and number of the person who will be conducting the mediation appointment. If you have not done this, or need to update your telephone number, you should contact us using the details at the end of this letter no less than 5 working days before your mediation appointment. Failure to do so may result in your mediation appointment not taking place and may result in a Judge issuing a penalty where the mediation was mandatory.

I put my details on the DQ so in theory they should already have everything. Does it mean I need to supply my info separately all it's fine as it it? They highlighted this in red.

2.
Quote
Explaining your position. You will need to briefly explain your claim or defence to the mediator. You should prepare for yourself a brief summary of the main points.

What should I do here? Read the previously submitted defence? Prepare something new? Should I talk about what has happened from driver's perspective?

22
If you've given a good reason (which you have) I imagine they will accommodate your request.

Understood thank you for this. This has now been sent:


And got an auto-response from both parties:

Court:


DCB Legal:


@b789 has kindly explained that this case is 99% likely to be discontinued.

Quote
You will receive your own DQ and you will have to complete it and send it to both the court and DCB Legal. After that you will receive a date for a mediation phone call. You are required to "attend" the call but it is not part of the actual judicial process and does not involve any judge or solicitor. It is a complete waste of time in cases like this and you simply offer £0 and I tis over in minutes and has no bearing on the process.

Eventually the case will be allocated to your local county court and you'll receive a date for a hearing if the claim hasn't already been struck out. The claimant has to pay the £27 trial fee around a month before the hearing. They will discontinue before having to pay that fee.

If they don't and you are the only one out of thousands I will have seen that has to go all the way to a hearing, you'd have to make your Witness Statement and send it to the court no later than (usually) 14 days before the hearing.

I will confirm once I had the phonecall. And if there is any help needed with the Witness Statement.

23
Quote
When you receive your own N180 (make sure it is not simply a copy of the claimants N180), do not use the paper form. Ignore all the other forms that came with it. you can discard those.

Yes this just came through in the post today.


 
Quote
If your MCOL says it has been sent but you haven’t received it yet, just download your DQ own here and fill it in on your computer. You sign it by simply typing your full name in the signature box.

I have it on MCOL as well:



Quote
• F1: Whichever is your nearest county court. Use this to find it: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/search-option
Thanks for the help with the form @b789, I have done exactly as you said and put down: “Central London County Court Thomas More Building Strand London WC2A 2LL I am in London so much that it's much easier for me than in Bristol.”

Would this be an issue to have it in London given my home address is in Bristol? I am in London so much that it’s much easier for me than in Bristol.

Quote
When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.
As soon as you confirm regarding the court address I will do that. Do I need to send them anything else? Like my defence etc? or just the DQ form?

24
Hi @b789,

The below response from DCB was sent over, saying that they have reviewed my defence and that their client intends to proceed, and that I can call them to discuss settlement. They also included a copy of their N180DQ.



MCOL is still unchanged;
•   Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 09/12/2024 at 15:42:35
•   Your acknowledgment of service was received on 09/12/2024 at 16:05:06
•   Your defence was received on 21/12/2024

Questions
1.   I guess they need to now actually post it to the court, right? They also asked for the court hearing to be near their address.
2.   Does that mean I would need to go up north if this was to go to court?
3.   What does it need to say for me to be able to send the N180DQ?

25
Quote
PN76007402: You say that you made representations both online and by post, do you have a screenshot of the confirmation page or an acknowledgment email confirming that you made representations?

Yes I have submitted my defence and got evidence of posting it both via post office as well as online. In the original post of this thread we have a copy of my representation submitted to them, and picture/screenshot of acknowledgments. Proof of the online submission is W26800139 but it doesn’t state the actual PCN on it. That’s just Newham’s system though

Quote
Also I note you made a Subject Access Request for this PCN, correct me if I'm wrong but this is still outstanding so for all we know, it might be that the council did receive your representation and it's the Notice of Rejection that got lost in the post?
Correct as per your suggestion I have asked them for a copy of the rejection. They said they would get back to me by 30th of January but nothing since. Even though they have provided the copies of the other request already. They did send me a letter saying to get in touch if I am struggling financially to repay it as they could help. I have posted a copy of that letter too.

Quote
PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643: for these you really have nothing at all to worry about as the council is guilty of a gross delay in progressing the case, have a read of Paul Richard Davis v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998)
Understood, so I should complain to the council to have this registered with TEC. Once this is done I can appeal. Only way to really get this closed off?

26
Quote
Are you satisfied that the address they are using is the one you will use for service of documents? If not, you will need to respond and inform them that they need to use your other address for service. If not, then you can just wait for the actual N1SDT Claim Form to arrive.
Yes it’s fine, I don’t mind if they go to London or Bristol one as long as they do get delivered... I am at both pretty much every other day so it’s no difference.

Quote
Additionally, the claimant’s bulk litigator, Moorside Legal, is known to issue claims that breach CPR 16.4(1)(a) by failing to include a clear statement of facts in the Particulars of Claim (PoC). Based on persuasive appeal case law, including CEL v Chan [2023] and CPMS v Akande [2024], it is highly likely that the first claim will be struck out at the allocation stage for failing to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). Therefore, it is expected that the first claim will not proceed to a hearing due to these procedural errors.
I am happy and want to go with option 2 but I have to be honest, I would need a bit more hand holding throughout the process as I struggled to follow the detail. I understood that this could have been combined into 1 claim as they are basically the same allegation happening on 2 different dates. That alone will be my defence to struck the 2nd claim correct?

Either way they have literally changed the signage since the driver parked there so I doubt they would be able to prove that the driver didn’t comply with the “contractual signage“... I will wait for the court claim letters to arrive so I can add this to MCOL. Would you be able to help with the defence when the time comes?



27
@Enceladus, thanks for taking the time and looking into this.

You understanding and summary is correct.

There were 6 PCNs in total.
#1 PN75748188 – paid and case closed
#2 PN75748213 – paid and case closed
#3 PN76007402 – This is what the post is about re Albert Way
#4 PN62628875 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.
#5 PN62645400 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.
#6 PN62647643 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.

Council made a mistake with the first two so when writing to them I found out about the #4, #5 & #6 which are for the car being in the yellow box. I am going to sit tight and wait for them to register the debt with the Traffic Enforcement Centre.

Quote
I note that the Ack receipt for your reps doesn't actually quote the PCN number, just an enquiry number. Is that true of the online Ack emails for the other PCNs?
Yes this is true for the other 2. I submitted my defence for PN75748188, PN75748213 & PN76007402. These were then posted to them too. I have 3 different references for that and none of them refers to the actual PCN.

Quote
The V5c for your car was last updated 07/09/2021. So I would suggest that the Registered Keeper address was likely incorrect prior to Sept 2021 and this is why you did not receive any of the notices for these three PCNs.
I requested a copy of these PCNs as per advice from @cp8759 and the address they had on file was indeed incorrect. I am not sure how this happened as I have been there since 2012 and because everything else is correct (first line, city and postcode) except the house number. It should be 39 but it’s 33. So, they sent this to a wrong address.

Re PN76007402 I want to appeal to the Adjudicator and I am quite confident it can be won as I have seen quite a lot of people here win this. That said, not so confident regarding the other 3. Although I have no faith that this will get ever registered as it has been so long that they would have done by now. That said I would like to know 2 things regarding them:
1. What would be my line of defence here for PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643?
2. Is there statutory limitation period i.e. an expiration date for council to register this with TEC?

Statutory Declaration (form PE3)
I also would like to clarify the process surrounding the Statutory Declaration (form PE3) & debt registration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC). Can I sign and have witnesses sign the PE3 form before the debt is officially registered with the TEC? I.e. can the date on the PE3 form precede the date of registration with TEC ensuring it's ready to submit as soon as the debt is registered? I am aware that I cannot submit the PE3 to the court or TEC until after the debt has been registered as it will get rejected.

28
@Incandescent, thanks for getting back to me. Only PN76007402 is at Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions Round. The other 3 (i.e. PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643) refer to a different location also in Newham but I found out about it while dealing with PN76007402 hence in this thread.

29
PN76007402
Why wouldn’t the council get my representations? I posted all 3 together and they responded to the first two.
The post office receipt suggests you sent three separate letters in three separate envelopes. Royal Mail used to be 99.97% reliable back in the day, but that all stopped with Covid and they never really recovered, see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8nkj2k237o and https://www.thecomet.net/news/24098443.anger-rogue-postman-dumped-peoples-letters/ and https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6513571/postman-sacked (I'm sure there's many more).

So, we'll never know why but for whatever reason one of the three envelopes was never received, it is what it is.

As for the Order for Recovery, you could just rely on the Royal Mail delivering it, but if the postie throws it in a hedge you then have a real problem.

You don't need to call TEC, just check the amount on the council website every couple of weeks, once the penalty goes up from £195 to £205 you know that the debt has been registered.

For PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643 you could raise a formal complaint on the grounds of undue delay using the complaint form here: https://www.newham.gov.uk/contact-information/make-complaint/2

If you go down the complaint route you need to make it very clear that you're not complaining about the PCNs or asking them to cancel them, you're only complaining about the undue delay in the council following the statutory process, and make it clear that all you want them to do is carry on with the next statutory step i.e. register the debt with TEC. Maybe post a draft on here first.

PN76007402
I hear you regarding the post office and that's fine, although I would imagine they should have received it. That said, I still submitted it online so either way they should have gotten it somehow.

Checking the website once a week won't be a problem so that should be fine.

PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643
Say I do the complaint, and they proceed to register it. I then do the PE3, and it starts the process again.

What happens then? How do I go about getting it dismissed? I would be happy to pay £65 for the first one only. Had I actually received it, I would have paid the £65 and be extra careful with that box and never let the other two happen.

Also that camera has been since destroyed by someone so not sure if this helps me or not as it clearly worked at the time

30
@correcthaunt for PN76007402 obviously the council never received your representations. You send a representation by post, that was obviously a mistake: anything you send by post gets scanned into the computer and the paper copy is immediately shredded, so it's a massive waste of time. If you make a representation online it goes directly into the council computer, so as well as being immediate, cheaper and more environmentally friendly you avoid the risk of postal issue. You now for next time. For now, all you can do is wait for the debt to be registered.

For this PCN, follows the process outlined here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/


For PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643, there's nothing you can do aside from waiting for the debt to be registered with TEC. Follow the process outlined here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/

By law statutory declarations can be done at either the County Court or the Magistrates' Court, but the County Court will be easier because they do it all the time, the staff at the Magistrates' Court might have no idea how the process works so it's not really worth the hassle of having to deal with them. As an alternative, any high street solicitor will normally do this for around £10 / £15.

Once you've made the statutory declarations let me know, but do not submit them before the debt is registered with TEC or they'll just get rejected.

Hi @cp8759,

Thank you for getting back to me, I really appreciate it.

PN76007402
Why wouldn’t the council get my representations? I posted all 3 together and they responded to the first two. Not to mention that I also submitted my representation for all 3 online as well. The proof of submission can be seen on the original post. I feel like this one is going to be registered but I am curious to see what they say to the request for information. Will I be notified of this being registered with TEC or do I need to check with TEC myself on weekly basis? 

Thank you for the link I will prepare the PE3 just in case now.

PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643
It’s annoying that there's nothing I can do aside from waiting for the debt to be registered with TEC. Given that these happened in 2021 and haven’t been registered yet I don’t think they will do so any time soon. Last two questions on this
1.   Do these things expire or can the council go after this in 20 years from now?
2.   Will I be notified of this being registered with TEC or do I need to check with TEC myself regularly? 

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