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Messages - 8vaibhav

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16
Private parking tickets / Re: NPC Notice to Keeper parked on pavement
« on: October 31, 2025, 10:38:54 pm »
No initial appeal to this bottom-dwelling firm of ex-clampers is going to succeed. Also, the secondary IAS appeal will not succeed either as the IAS is owned by the same firm that owns the IPC. Where this will be won, eventually, is after they issue a county court claim, which when defended with advice from here is easily won and the odds of it ever getting as far as an actual hearing is incredibly low.

Your choice. Pay into the scam and become part of the problem or fight it with the advice you get here.

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not PoFA compliant with para 9(2)(a) and you would argue that there is no evidence of a contract ever being foamed with the driver. Not that you're going to waste that argument on the incestuous IPC and IAS.

Here is the initial appeal you should submit. You are ONLY appealing as the Keeper. They have no idea who the driver is unless you blab it to them inadvertently or otherwise.

There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. NPC has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. NPC have no hope should you be so stupid as to try and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Thanks, can you also advise which option from the drop down to choose?
I am tempted to select "I was not aware that I have incurred a charge", all others seem less true than this one.

17
Private parking tickets / Re: NPC Notice to Keeper parked on pavement
« on: October 31, 2025, 04:52:20 pm »
I do see that the NTK fails to "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver" so not complaint with Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, schedule 4, paragraph 9, clause 2(e).

Any other instances of non-compliance here? Any other defense should be added? The pictures do show barely half the tire on the pavement which itself is ambiguous. Also, observation window seems to be too low, less than 2 minutes.

Can anybody help me frame an appeal please. Also which option to choose online while appealing? Many thanks in advance. 

18
Private parking tickets / Re: NPC Notice to Keeper parked on pavement
« on: October 30, 2025, 08:45:13 pm »
Apologies, I am the keeper, fixed the title

19
Private parking tickets / NPC Notice to Keeper parked on pavement
« on: October 30, 2025, 07:41:57 pm »
I have received this as a keeper:




Is this POFA compliant?
Please advise what to challenge this with in text and which of these options to choose:


Please see online "proof" images they have shared:










Many thanks

20
What proof do you have that it was sold? It's been transferred to another learner, but the £500 - £1000 figure appears to have just been made up.

I agree the figure is made up, but it's based on what I have heard instructors or scalper websites quote for an "early" appointment when DVSA doesn't show any availability officially. Maybe the figure is £250 for two appointments, I don't know, but that's not the point.

This instructor risked so much by swapping the slot (NOBODY else knew the address, license number AND the appointment confirmation number besides him) so I suspected he must have found it "worth it". Especially when he has been paid more than £1000 cumulatively for classes since January this year.

Have PROOF emails for all information shared with him and have proof of payments made to him for classes. Also have DVSA confirmation of the slot swapped on phone. Of course NO proof of the exact amount he earned in the process.

21
A driving test appointment secured for Mid October (back in March) was SOLD by Driving Instructor to someone else without consent or information.

The instructor insisted on being sent appointment confirmation email multiple times on the pretext of noting this on his diary (the idea was to use his car for the test itself) and already had license details/address etc. The DVSA confirmed that the appointment was changed TWICE on phone by an instructor who had all the details of the applicant and was swapped with another learner's appointment.

The instructor probably made between £500-£1000 doing this stunt from other learners and shamelessly continues to pretend nothing has happened.

It's definitely GDPR violation and I am sure some other laws. 

What recourse does the defrauded person have here?

Thinking to email a formal complaint to instructorconduct@dvsa.gov.uk at a minimum but not sure what that achieves. Would ideally want his name struck off the "Approved driving instructors" list. Can past payments (of more than £1000 cumulatively through the course of this year) be claimed at all in some form? Police complaint worth it?

Would appreciate guidance, many thanks.

22
Private parking tickets / Re: NPC Notice to Hirer: Parked on Pavement
« on: October 02, 2025, 09:55:40 pm »
Sharing a good news here, many thanks to the amazing help from here. Kudos!

Parking Charge Number (PCN): xxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: yyyyy
Issued On: 30/07/2025
Issued By: National Parking Control Group Ltd

Appeal Outcome: Accepted

The Adjudicators comments are as follows:

"This PCN was issued on the basis that the Appellant was parked on a pavement which is an area where no parking is permitted. The Appellant appeals the PCN on a number of grounds including that the Notice to Hirer is defective as it doesn't comply with PoFA; specifically paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4. I have checked the requirements of those sections and read the Notice to Hirer that is provided. The Appellant states that the documents referred to in paragraph 13(2) which the Operator is required to serve on the Hirer together with the Notice to Hirer have not been served on him. The Notice to Hirer makes no mention of these documents and no copy is provided by the Operator (only a copy of the transfer of liability from the registered keeper). As such, I cannot be satisfied that the required documents were served on the Appellant and I cannot be satisfied that the requirements of PoFA have been complied with. As such I will allow the appeal.

I have considered all the issues raised by both parties in this Appeal and I am not satisfied that the Operator has established that the Parking Charge Notice was properly issued and therefore this Appeal is allowed. "


As your appeal has been accepted, the charge has been cancelled by the operator and you do not need to take any further action.

Yours Sincerely,
The Independent Appeals Service

23
As the 14-day 50% discount is expected to run out day after tomorrow, I am thinking to pay and move on latest by then unless I hear anything here. Many thanks.

24
IMO, no. Your defence is procedural.

I was not the owner.....

This arises because you believe that *******(the lease company) used the grounds of 'We are a vehicle-hire company etc.' in their representations and that the authority accepted the same. However, this is not permissible under the Act which restricts these grounds to, inter alia, agreements of less than 6 months: my lease is for *** years.

The authority may not consider me to be the owner and the PCN must be cancelled.

I do not dispute the facts of the contravention and therefore, should the authority reject these representations, I should be grateful if they would not belabour this point but instead focus on the grounds of my representations i.e. confirm the grounds on which the registered keeper's representations were accepted and provide the supporting mandatory documents e.g. hiring agreement etc. A signed statement of the lessee's liability under a lease would not be acceptable.


OP, I've no idea whether ****(the lease company) used the correct grounds in this case, which could ONLY be that they were not the 'keeper' (because the presumption that the registered keeper is the person by whom the vehicle is kept is rebuttable), but it's worth a punt because otherwise I cannot see a defence on the facts as we know them.


For information:

(d)that the recipient is a vehicle-hire firm ..

(i)the vehicle in question was at the material time hired from that firm under a vehicle hiring agreement.

.....
(9)In this paragraph, “vehicle hiring agreement” and “vehicle-hire firm” have the same meanings as in section 66 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (c. 53) (Hired vehicles).

(paras. 1(4)(d) and 1(9) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities etc. Act 2003 refer).


(7)This section applies to a hiring agreement under the terms of which the vehicle concerned is let to the hirer for a fixed period of less than six months (s66(7) Road Traffic Offenders Act refers)


Many thanks again for this. I essentially copy pasted this and challenged both PCNs arguing I wasn't the owner.

I have received the rejection letters attached below (both letters are virtually identical, so posting only one).
The council says they have reviewed the terms of the lease but the lease company explicitly said that they did NOT share the actual lease document with the council. All they have sent is just one page giving my details, I am putting that at the end as well.

What is the best course of action for me? Pay £160 and move on OR there is any hope in appealing this to the adjudicator (what would that entail?)

Rejection Letter:



Letter from Lease company to Council:

25
IMO, no. Your defence is procedural.

I was not the owner.....

This arises because you believe that *******(the lease company) used the grounds of 'We are a vehicle-hire company etc.' in their representations and that the authority accepted the same. However, this is not permissible under the Act which restricts these grounds to, inter alia, agreements of less than 6 months: my lease is for *** years.

The authority may not consider me to be the owner and the PCN must be cancelled.

I do not dispute the facts of the contravention and therefore, should the authority reject these representations, I should be grateful if they would not belabour this point but instead focus on the grounds of my representations i.e. confirm the grounds on which the registered keeper's representations were accepted and provide the supporting mandatory documents e.g. hiring agreement etc. A signed statement of the lessee's liability under a lease would not be acceptable.


OP, I've no idea whether ****(the lease company) used the correct grounds in this case, which could ONLY be that they were not the 'keeper' (because the presumption that the registered keeper is the person by whom the vehicle is kept is rebuttable), but it's worth a punt because otherwise I cannot see a defence on the facts as we know them.


For information:

(d)that the recipient is a vehicle-hire firm ..

(i)the vehicle in question was at the material time hired from that firm under a vehicle hiring agreement.

.....
(9)In this paragraph, “vehicle hiring agreement” and “vehicle-hire firm” have the same meanings as in section 66 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (c. 53) (Hired vehicles).

(paras. 1(4)(d) and 1(9) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities etc. Act 2003 refer).


(7)This section applies to a hiring agreement under the terms of which the vehicle concerned is let to the hirer for a fixed period of less than six months (s66(7) Road Traffic Offenders Act refers)


This is giving me some hope, many thanks.

I will ask the leasing company to give me the exact communication they sent to the council or if they used the same online form at pcn.royalgreenwich.gov.uk which I see. I will share what I hear back. There is still some time before the 14 day discounted for window ends thankfully.

I will also share a draft challenge here after that.

26
Is the advise here to PAY and move on? for BOTH of these PCNs?

Any chance of "grace" where the "restricted route" was not restricted from 7pm, and the PCN is captures a 6:45pm  crossing?

If appealing "I was unaware of the rules" or "I didn't see any signs or lines" don't seem very strong starting points, is "none of the above" ever worth a shot?

Many thanks in advance.

27
TBH you're lucky the signage has been changed - it used to be a "No Entry except buses" and you would've got 3 penalty points for "contravening a No Entry sign" (or something to that effect).
I would consider myself unlucky an explicit no entry except buses would have definitely made me stop, but that's theoretical at this point.

Your defence on both your PCNs seems to be relying on "I wasn't looking where I was going and I can't read traffic signs". I'd suggest you look for a technicality on the actual PCN notices instead and open your eyes a bit more when driving!
Thanks, reality is that Google maps saved me from this near Westcombe Hill previously, it knows the times when entry is permitted there. In this instance I was following the route previously shown by gmaps manually and got caught in the window by 15 minutes, is there any grace/defence there for this?

For Rochester Way, it was my first time there and I was exploring the area without gmaps which I deeply regret now.

Any suggestions what "technicality" I could find on the PCNs, I attached them in the first post of this thread. Appreciate help.

28
Please advise on my defence draft for Rochester way PCN 52M Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
(motor vehicles)

I have also adding pictures at the end of the post.

Defence draft:
"I was unaware of the rules"
Text:
I was unaware of the traffic prohibition on Rochester Way, there was no advance warning as I approached the Bus Stop and there were cars parked right up to it. I was committed to cross before I could comprehend the signs, and couldn't reverse from there which would have potentially caused trouble for anybody coming from behind. I am terribly sorry, this was an honest mistake, could happen to anyone, first offence, I won't do it again. Please cancel the PCN.

Thanks,




29
OP, back to basics pl.

I have received TWO PCNs from Greenwich council, they got my details from my EV leasing company for both. I am the Hirer of this leased vehicle.

No.

Firstly, there's no need to dance around who was driving - this is not a private parking charge - so if you were driving pl say so.

Secondly, you cannot be the 'hirer' of a leased vehicle, you can only be the lessee and as regards the contraventions these are chalk and cheese. So, is the vehicle hired - for period of no more than 6 months - or leased for a longer term?

To whom are the PCNs actually addressed i.e. you by name or the hire/lease company and simply passed to you? Your post implies the former, but let's be clear.

Apologies, I am the driver and the letter I attached was sent/addressed to me.
I used "Hirer" lingo from ftla's private parking thread, I am indeed the lessee as this is a longer than 6 months lease.

30
Hello knowledgeable people,

I have received TWO PCNs from Greenwich council, they got my details from my EV leasing company for both. I am the Hirer of this leased vehicle.

Both are FIRST time contraventions respectively. Both essentially happened cause driver didn't have Google maps working and missed reading the exact signs.

In case of Rochester Way, driver had never gone before but thought it was a bus stop rather than bus lane.

In car of Westcombe Hill, driver took the same route multiple times but this one was before 7pm by 15 minutes so the camera got the vehicle.

I attaching both PCNs here along with challenge options, please advise if any hope in either or both?






My options to challenge:

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