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Messages - Incandescent

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7591
Frankly, until we can see TfL documents, no real advice can be given. He cannot appeal any penalty charge notice as the process is at its final stage for debt recovery. The only way to revert the process is to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration. What would be put on that declaration ?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice
and also
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe2-application-to-file-a-statutory-declaration-out-of-time

7592
OK, so no PCN was served. Council will claim it was in preparation and served a postal PCN in accordance with the process defined in the TMA 2004, so have behaved correctly so far.

If the loading bay sign had no times, it means it applies 24 hours. If no days, then its 24x7.

It's up to you now whether to submit reps or just pay-up.

7593
Well, it doesn't affect you, it is his problem registering a car at an address that is not his usual address thus not getting mail on time or even at all. However, as you've told us, you are getting a load of hassle from the bailiffs. In the end, the bailiffs will track him down and seize property, usually the car as this is easy to find.

7594
Can you be a bit more explicit on why no PCN was served. PCNs can be served to car or drive. Service of a Notice to Owner without first serving a PCN is a procedural impropriety, but we have to be clear on what happened "on the day".

7595
The document you have received is likely to be the Notice to Owner. Please post it up here or if it's something else, post that up. At NtO stage, the discount option has gone, so it's a no-brainer to submit reps again. When they reject, they may re-offer the discount, but are under no legal duty to do so.

7596
The Traffic Management Act 2004 introduced the facility for councils to send a postal PCN in cases where the CEO was preparing a PCN, but hadn't yet printed it off to attach to the car, or hand to the driver, who  drove off before it could be served.  There are probably photos on the Manchester website, but these are not a legal requirement. If it came to adjudication, the adjudicator will decide, using the civil law test of "on the balance of probabilities" whether the offence occurred or not.

You can of course, submit representations (not appeal) to the council who are likely to reject them. YOu can also take them to the adjudicators for a final decision, but the full PCN penalty of £70 will be in play if you do.

7597
So here is the entrance to Horseleydown Lane from the direction you entered: -
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5027646,-0.0767925,3a,75y,8h,87.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM5OGwKqyXiSVrppSVCrGzw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu
Presumably you failed to notice the CPZ sign. The hours on it are the single-yellow line restricted times. However, you've blanked-out the contravention time on the PCN, so we cannot compare it to the CPZ times. So why did you do this ?

7598
If those were no entry signs, would they also be inadequate? Somehow I have my doubts.

I think your best bet might be to make a plea for discretion while we wait for the traffic order to come back.
But surely any traffic roundabout sign giving the direction information would have something to indicate an access ban at certain times. Here there is nothing as far as I can see aport from the small yellow signs. Sorry, but I still think this is very badly signed. OK for those who pass here every day maybe.

Of course, I'm not an adjudicator wanting an easy day at work !

7599
I think his post should have been passed onto him.
Only "should" ? Why is there doubt ?

7600
Sorry, I don't seem to have made myself clear as you seem to have misunderstood.

You keep contacting TEC  by phone every 7-10 days until they tell you the debt has been registered. Only then can you submit your WS. If you submit it before then, it will be rejected as TEC will have no record of it.

7601
Quote
This morning a bailiff turned up at my home asking for my brother, but he hasn't lived here for years.

Quote
V5 for his car is registered to my home address.

So was mail from TfL arriving at your address, passed to him ? The only place TfL get the name and address from is by enquiring from DVLA, quoting the car registration number.

7602
And my question is - What address is on your brother's V5 Registration Certificate for his car ? That is where all the documents get sent to, as TfL obtain keeper and address from the DVLA, quoting the reg, number.

Also, until we see some documents he has received, we're in the dark.

7603
That is a vey helpful letter, and advises you to wait for the OfR, so that you can submit a WS to TEC. Submitting the WS is a mere tick-box exercise and gets the process reverted to the original PCN stage at which point you can appeal or pay.

At the end of the period allowed on the CC for payment, the council can register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC), following which they can issue you with an Order for Recovery. At this stage a Witness Statement can be submitted stating that the PCN was not received. The form to use is the TE9 : -
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-te9-dart-charge-mersey-gateway-clear-air-zones-challenge-a-traffic-enforcement-order
As you didn't receive the original PCN, it would be prudent to now be proactive, and to contact TEC quoting the PCN Number after the period for payment of the CC has expired, to find out if the debt has been registered. You most definitely do not want to miss this stage. You can submit a WS even though you may not have received the OfR. About every 7-10 days is normally sufficient.

When it comes to filling in the form, do note that the "Applicant" is the council, not you. You are the "Respondent".

Finally, is your address on the CC correct in all details and the same as your V5 ? Small errors can sometimes lead to mail going astray.

7604
Thanks again!

I doubt mitigation would work but don’t know how else I can approach this. the council may just want the money as they really need money these days.
I'm afraid its a money game with almost all councils these days. My view is that there should not be a contravention for failure to display what with all the Pay-by-Phone bays these days. CEOs should issue "failure to pay" tickets, and then the recipient could submit reps with the parking ticket.

7605
Well, this does indeed seem to be an error by the council. So what you should do now is submit representations that the offence did not occur, and include a photo of the sign.

I looked on GSV, but it's not up-to-date, latest is 2021 for Rangefield Road. Presumably this is the school the restrictions are for: -
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4237609,0.0031889,3a,76.1y,67.56h,90.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYMIWz-_Q0FIMIAnzHFCZbQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu

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