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Messages - Incandescent

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76
It is not "pavement parking" that was banned in the 70s in London. The ban was on parking "off the carriageway", a key difference, and looking at your photos, I'm puzzled that you managed to get away with parking there for so long. In addition, despite the 70s legislation, you are also parking contrary to the double-yellow lines that apply to footways and verges, not just the carriageway.

No TMO is needed to enforce the 70s ban, it is an Act of Parliament, and nothing more is needed.

If enforcement is only recent , it looks as if somebody has made a complaint, or a "new broom" charged with bringing in more PCN cash, has taken over.

77
Just had a thought that if this is a mandatory left turn, why don't the traffic lights green phase show left turn arrows.

For me the whole signage array here is a Dog's Breakfast, an indicative of a cheap and nasty scheme. I would go for the council failing in their duty to erect adequate signage to convey the restriction, but you'll only get a positive result at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. If th council had put green directional arrows on the traffic lights green phase, plus a NRT sign below, I don't think you would ever succeed

So it now is up to you; take the Double-or-Quits gamble at TPT or just cough-up the discount. I have to say, though,  that I don't think success is 'slam dunk'.

Here's Regulation 10 of LATOR 1996: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

78
They should have sent you a postal PCN.  You seem to have missed receiving this, so as time went on the period to respond to the PCN expired, so they have served a Charge Certificate.
I suggest you get onto them straightaway, because it is my understanding there is no facility to submit a witness statement in Scottish law, unlike England.

79
I reposted one of the decisions as inline images earlier today if you look back.
Yea, missed it in the onward rush in my life !!

So really, the OP needs to explain to us why he ignored that letter, where it clearly says that he has lost and what he has to do to make payment. 

As far as I can see the only option is SFM's one of contacting TfL and explain that he had misunderstood the process, and had been expecting a demand for the money from them, but received two CCs instead, and ask for forebearance.

80
Well, two things.
1.Their photos do not show you passing any restriction sign.
2.Please post a GSV link to the exact location on Vicar Lane.

81
Well, you would have had a strong case if it wasn't for this advance sign that is not obstructed at all:-
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nPoXjj2QAKgrhCmD7

82
As this case hinges on signage, we really do need to see those signs. Sorry if this means you've got to trek out there again. At t he moment all I see is the geographic layout sign at the junction showing a No Right Turn symbol on the right. You can just about make it out in their first photo. I think that is totally inadequate, but you have to accept you'll have to forego the discount and take them to the TPT.

83
From what I can see the OP did receive the decisions:

'I recieved a letter from London tribunals saying that TfL had won appeal'.
I think we need to see that letter on here. 

84
First off, DO NOT PAY the Charge Certificate.

 It is essentially an unlawful demand for money when the appeal process is taking place, (London Tribunals in April 2027).  The date of the CC is probably sufficiently close to when you registered the appeal that it won't be your Get-out-of-Jail-Free card, but it could do. It depends on when the council received notice of your appeal date.

I suggest you contact the council to state that you registered an appeal at London Tribunals on <date>,  which was before they served a CC, and demand that the CC be cancelled forthwith, or you will include this unlawful act in your representations to the adjudicator.  Appeals have been won exclusively on this aspect many times before.

85
What I don't understand is why you didn't receive the decision of London Tribunals ? Once they say you've lost, you have 28 days to pay, before a CC can be served. So what happened ?

86
Frankly, you have correctly identified the issue, which is the absence of an arrow on the pay-parking sign misled you to think that provided one paid, one could park all along the bay. You assumed that the sign for Business Permit holders meant that they could only park for free to the left of the arrow indicating where they could park, and not to the right, where they would have to pay just like other motorists.
That seems a reasonable argument to me, to take to London Tribunals, but you have to risk the full PCN penalty, of course.  There are no additional costs if you do so, only the penalty if you lose, and if you win you pay nothing. The council don't get away cost free as they must pay the adjudication fee, and also tghe PITA of preparing an evidence pack.

So its your call now.

87
Yes I just checked.  It appears to be from 2025 so an old ticket from someone in the house. Presumably it somehow saved old details.  I have no idea

Shall I just begin representations again and explain what's happened?
You're over the 28 days, so need to act urgently before they serve a Charge Certificate

88
There's clearly some mistake here. I only have 1 PCN and made representations. No one in my house was near the Blackwall Tunnel on the 17/8.
What do i do from here?

EDITED TO ADD:  I've just checked the TfL bounce back to my representation and it has the wrong reference on it.  Not the one I would have typed in, that's stated on my PCN.  I couldn't have guessed a completely different number and one that actually matched a ticket they issued a few days before.

I just went onto the TfL website and typed in the number and it's still showing as £90 and that I can still make a representation.

I'm very confused!
and presumably the same registration number for the car ?

89
It would be useful if you would post their photos which show you parked well back from the junction of the bays. You're not looking at fine margins here, IMO.

I don't follow your response to Incandescent's question, if you went to the sign post then the Business Bays sign plus arrow must surely have been clear?
Indeed, me too.  I am astonished that the Business Parking Only sign, which is hardly inconspicuous, was ignored. However, the OP shouldn't think we think he's an idiot, because we see this so often it is clearly something in what we as humans actually see even though the eye transmits the message !  I once got right through Manchester Airport to the departure lounge using my daughter's passport, taken in error when I left the house. I only noticed it when about to board the aircraft !!!! 

I think the lack of an arrow on the pay-parking sign is what has done it.  Would this win at London Tribunals ? I think not.


90
TE7 and TE9 are not required to be witnessed. Only the Statutory Declaration used for London-specific traffic legislation needs witnessing.

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