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Messages - Incandescent

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7456
There's another thread running on this new bus gate. A tyical move to make money dressed up by council b**lsh*t as an improvement : -
https://letstalk.enfield.gov.uk/nmh-ati?tool=qanda#:~:text=The%20proposals%20feature%20a%20two,modal%20filter%20at%20Amersham%20Avenue

Your GSV link doesn't seem to take you anywhere near Bull Lane. GSV is not up-to-date, so doesn't show the bus gate, nor any advance warning signs.  If you want to fight this one, we really need to see what advance warning is given. Of course you could submit representations on the lines of being a patient at the hospital.

Just read the absolute bu+lsh*t here : -
https://letstalk.enfield.gov.uk/nmh-ati/news_feed/bull-lane-bus-gate#:~:text=The%20bus%20gate%20at%20the,gate%20location%20will%20be%20removed.


7457
https://maps.app.goo.gl/gbVjvRDuA5SEjHvY6
This is a better link because it shows how bad councils are at installing parking bays : -
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.389563,-0.2978747,3a,75y,70.4h,93.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHWOYNH05ql-ruDVcYAU6Bw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Outside the pub is the loading bay, note the wider bay compared to the other one. A better, (and recommended) installation would have the two signs on a single pole at the division between the two bays, with arrows to indicate applicability. HOwever, the existing signing is present and clear enough IMHO.  Having said that, the loading bay is not all that long, so I'm surprised you seemed to have missed it.  Or did you just chance your arm and hope a CEO didn't come along !

PCNs can sometimes contain fatal errors of content making them void, so please post-up the PCN, all sides. YOu can redact the reg. numbere but it's not important as that is on display whenever your car is on the public highway.

7458
First off, to get to the adjudicators, (Traffic Penalty Tribunal), you first have to submit reps to the council.Only when they reject your reps can you take them to the TPT. When rejecting, they will no doubt say everything is OK, and possible re-offer the discount. If they do, you have to weigh up the matter. If they don't, it is a total no-brainer to take them to the TPT, as the penalty doesn't increase and there are no additional costs.
Assuming the advance sign is what I posted, I think you have a reasonably good case, but we can never predict what an adjudicator will decide. Certainly if you take the TPT path it is essential you ask for a telepone hearing with an adjudicator or even a hearing at their office. You must convince an adjudicator that the advance sign is totally inadequate. I think it is, but it's not me you have to convince.

7459
Most councils have a facility on their website to show the status of the PCN. This may be buried in the pages for making payment so have a look. You'll need PCN Number, and car reg.

7460
The video shows you totally bang-to-rights, I can't see anything that might contradict this opinion. Two clear 'No Left Turn' signs with nothing in the way of them to prevent you seeing them.

Of course there may be a fatal error of content in the PCN or the traffic order may be out-of-date. If there is something, you'd inevitably have to take them to London Tribunals for an unbiased decision. This means the discount option wouuld be lost.

7461
They may also have the video available on their website, so follow the instructions to view evidence. Download it and post it here if there is. However from what you say, you would seem ot be bang-to-rights.

7462
GSV view is not up-to-date, so you'd need to take photos that could show bad signing. Their sole evidence is a video, so you and us need to see it.  It may be possible to download it from their website.

7463
Well, here are the signs you appear to have missed : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/mJtPyKgSBSrrhbN99

Easy to miss if high-sided vehicles are parked there delivering to the shops.
Here's 2012 when right turns were allowed
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tvTwKXww5VEZEBz98

and 2019
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fwFrAsWy4YkxGp9P6

So is it worth a punt at London Tribunals ? I would say about 50-50, but others may differ.

This assumes the PCN has no fatal errors, and the traffic orders are OK.

7464
They say the signage is adequate, so the only way to resolve this is to take them to TPT. This means risking the full PCN penalty.
If GSV is up-to-date, please post a link.

7465
All there is, is this piddling little sign a few yards in advance of the bus gate signs. Not good at all. No wonder there making shedloads of money here.  Manchester have form for poor signing on Oxford Road, and the adjudicators were scathing about it. However, Manchester are very unlikely to give way, as they like the money so much, so you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty instead of the discount.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HJGq7mQZ2J1Z9mnu6

7466
Having now seen the video, I am more certain than I was that you will struggle to overturn this PCN. The advance sign is a correctly formatted advance warning sign of a restriction at the next turning on the  left.

7468
Your links don't work, probably because you have cut-and-pasted them. You need to re-post them afresh here.

It looks like you have fallen foul of this new scheme: -
https://letstalk.enfield.gov.uk/nmh-ati?tool=qanda#:~:text=The%20proposals%20feature%20a%20two,modal%20filter%20at%20Amersham%20Avenue

7469
Only by making an official complaint, then, if fobbed-off, going to the LGO (Local Government Ombudsman). The PCN enforcement process has now completed its course.
Why did the false evidence issue not get looked at in the adjudication ? This shows the perils of papers-based adjudications.

7470
They have acted reasonably and not forced you to adjudication.
Well done !

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