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Messages - andy_foster

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16
Logically, speeding must be a continuous offence insofar as it is impossible to exceed the speed limit instantaneously. The logical argument would then be that if you were exceeding the speed limit for 1 metre, 100 metres, a mile, or 10 miles, that would only be a single continuous offence - regardless of how many separate witnesses or cameras saw you do it. Arguably, if you were to continuously exceed the speed limit going from an ordinary road to a motorway, or vice versa, that would/could constitute 2 separate offences as the offences are created by different legislative provisions.

Logically, to argue that being caught twice whilst continuously exceeding the same contiguous speed limit somehow constituted 2 separate offences because you were caught twice would require some logical argument that elements of the same continuous offence somehow constituted separate offences.

There is an obiter (throw-away, or not binding) comment in some High Court judgement to the effect that it cannot be right that a driver, having been caught speeding at the start of a journey would then effectively have a free pass to continue speeding for the rest of his journey - but that somewhat unlearned comment from an otherwise learned judge not only  seeks to ignore the principles of duplicity and continuous offences, it ignores that (unless the police are too lazy to do any proper police work, and issue fixed penalties like confetti), exceeding the speed limit continuously for say 100 miles would be an aggravating factor to that offence - meaning that the driver would not in effect have a free pass.

Logically, it would be somewhat harder to argue that you cannot be prosecuted twice for the same continuous offence if the court are not satisfied that it was a single continuous offence. As a general rule, the prosecution's burden of proof is "beyond any reasonable doubt", and the defence's burden of proof is "on the balance of probabilities".

The fact that the website does not show you the money shot does not mean that the police do not have it. If you were caught by a camera and the police do not have the photo(s), logically they must have a very effective Ouija board in order to issue the NIP.

If you dispose of criminal liability for an offence by accepting a fixed penalty, you cannot subsequently [lawfully] be prosecuted for that offence (S. 78(2) RTOA 1988). The cheapest way out - assuming that you can persuade the court, on the balance of probabilities that it was a single continuous offence, would be to accept a fixed penalty for one the the "instances", and then defend the other on the basis that the prosecution is an abuse of process/statute barred.

Please do not ask us what an unknown bench on an unknown day will decide.

17
The Flame Pit / Re: Have I been caught?
« on: September 14, 2026, 10:24:57 am »
Should I be worried?

Yes, you absolutely should be worried. Your post shows that you are a victim of the millennial education system, and are thus utterly lacking in intestinal fortitude, self-accountability and self-reliance.
As an adult, you should be ashamed of yourself. As a biker, well, words fail me.

If you had bothered to read the cunningly hidden "READ THIS FIRST" sticky at the top of the speeding forum, you would already have pretty much all the advice/information we can provide at this stage.

18
No, yes.
No
Who cares?

19
Is or was? The hearing was 10 hours ago.

20
This legislation cited appears to have been lifted wholesale from s. 20(8 ) Road traffic Offenders Act 1988. This was the subject of an appeal to the Divisional Court by the DPP in DPP v Thornley [2006] EWHC 312 (Admin)

In Thornley the inferior court found that failure to disclose the certificate 7 days in advance rendered the evidence, given by the operator as a live witness inadmissible, but the Divisional Court held that ss(8 ) only negated admissibility under s. 20(1) or (6) and did not preclude the evidence being given in the normal way (by a live witness under oath or affirmation.

As an aside, Owen J royally laid into the DPP's counsel for not doing his homework before presenting what the DPP's arguments should have been himself - the applicability of the same identical provision in a drink driving case.

The fact that the authorised representative required the attendance of the witness and the witness CBA to turn up, suggests that in this case there was no alternative admissibility.

21
The Flame Pit / Re: Have I been caught?
« on: September 06, 2026, 06:17:01 pm »
Probably because it contained fake news - such as the NIP to the RK must be posted within 14 days.

22
News / Press Articles / Re: Sadiq Khan
« on: September 02, 2026, 03:06:35 pm »
It could be worse. Being a criminal conviction, there is provision for making a statutory declaration for free which compels the court to set aside the conviction. Private or local authority penalties could have been far more troublesome.

Obviously, the stunt was borne out of far right racism, and nothing to do with his oppressive and anti-car policies.

23
And "How does this help the OP?" would be Southpaw of the Yard

24
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Caught twice recently
« on: August 30, 2026, 09:09:47 am »
You won't get 2 courses.

25
If this goes to court, tickets are irrelevant.
You can ask for a spicy meatfeast pizza, but it doesn't mean you're going to get it.
What he probably said was that obstructing an emergency vehicle is not a specific offence if you are not aware that you are obstructing it.
However, if he told you, on bodycam, that he doesn't think you committed any offence whatsoever, but he's going to stick you on anyway because who are the court going to believe, then you probably want to get a copy of the unredacted footage, including the earlier footage of him loosing his sh*t when Lord Lucan overtook him riding Shergar.

If hew was behind you for a significant time with blues and twos on, far enough back that he would have been clearly visible in your mirrors, and you failed to see him, that would seem to be evidence that your driving fell below the standard expected of a careful and competent driver.

That said, on the many, many times I have seen police with blues and twos being held up by oblivious drivers, I've never seen said drivers pulled over for obstructing an emergency vehicle, as the occifer had something more pressing to deal with - hence the blues and twos. However, if Morse had instructed Lewis to put the blues and twos on because he was fed up of sitting in traffic, he might be more inclined to stop and throw the book at someone who had failed to respect his authoritah.

26
Presumably the landlord will not be able to state categorically that no NIP was delivered addressed to you. Would he be able to state categorically that all post addressed to you was passed to you? If not, I would be very surprised if a bench found as fact that it was not served.


27
I've never read any Kafka, but I know what Kafkaesque means.

We are dealing with two intransigent and incompetent state bodies who both both consider themselves to be *the law* (or otherwise above the law), and that this isn't their problem. Taking what the OP has told us at face value, one of them has f*cked up (possibly both, but Occam's razor suggests that that is unlikely).

Both bodies are overseen (to a greater or lesser extent) by the relevant ministers, and the High Court has supervisory jurisdiction over all public bodies that are not directly answerable to Parliament.

The "appeal of last resort" is an application for Judicial Review (the High Court). If all else fails, IMHO the last resort would be to apply for a Judicial Review against both parties - Nottinghamshire Magistrates' Court and the DVLA. Whilst presumably one of those parties is innocent, the guilty party would be responsible for the innocent party necessarily being dragged through the process.

A Judicial Review application, as with virtually all litigation, has a pre-action protocol. That protocol (basically a Letter Before Action) might serve to readjust their "not my problem" attitude, although I wouldn't hold my breath.

Logically, if the court will inform the DVLA that they never ordered the endrosement of your licence, then it would seem to be irrational for the DVLA not to rescind the endorsement, and in the same vein, if the court were minded to do that, it would seem irrational for them not to further instruct the DVLA to rescind the endorsement.

What it is important to *focus* on what you know, rather than what you merely suspect, if this issue is the result of fraud (and perjury/perverting the course of justice/contempt of court/etc.) then the court could potentially have been blameless in their actions (although as a matter of law the conviction must be wrong, regardless of whether they should have known) - but *if* they did convict you wrongly due to fraud, they were IMHO clearly wrong not to find any record of it.

Personally, I consider endorsing a driver's licence without retaining a copy of the instruction to be exceedingly arrogant and systemically incompetent - or from the DVLA's perspective, business as usual.

28
The Flame Pit / Re: Access restrictions to stop rat running
« on: August 26, 2026, 11:06:43 am »
How heavy is the reverse burden to prove you stopped?

A reverse burden is generally "to the civil standard" (on the balance of probabilities).
As the authority would generally be unable to directly disprove any such defence, it would seem to fall to whether or not the adjudicator found the appellant (or their defence) to be credible.

29
IMHO the BBC are not interested in the facts, unless they support its agenda.

30
The Flame Pit / Re: Access restrictions to stop rat running
« on: August 25, 2026, 09:59:20 pm »
Generally a reverse burden of proof would only apply if -
the legislation specified as much (e.g. it shall be a defence if..., or the legislation creates a presumption),
the legislation would be unenforceable without a reverse burden (e.g. insurance),
or the authority have already proven their case to the applicable standard.

Presumably, the authority are of the opinion that evidence that a vehicle exited the scheme (at a different point to that at which it entered it) within a certain time period is sufficient evidence that it was not for access.

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