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Messages - Scientist and Saint

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Can we please not forget that councillors do not run council departments - that is done by council employees.   Were there to be an election tomorrow and the control change to Conservatives, Newham would instantly become a "Conservative-run council", but the employees in the parking services department would be exactly the same people doing exactly the same things, and if that change in control had happened before this deplorable incident then The Telegraph would have been duty bound to write

'A Conservative-run council has issued a grovelling apology for wrongly accusing two motorists and their legal representative of forging faulty penalty charge notices (PCNs) in an “orchestrated fraud”.'

@Scientist and Saint well they've opened one of the links, but not the other three. As HCA says, please post up all pages of the notice of rejection.

One could think that the driver knows the area intimately and that there's no confusion over the meaning of signs and restrictions.
One could.
Or one could think that the driver had always thought the SYL restrictions were as per the signs on the lamp posts.


Well - they rejected my appeal.

I'll scan and upload their letter, but in the meantime here is what I sent them as representations. 
I've ringed the only link which I created which got any clicks (1).

Obviously I don't know abut the arp4 links you created.

The Flame Pit / Re: SABA on TfL land
« on: February 23, 2024, 11:57:10 pm »
I guess people will need to know who manages this one (e.g. NCP) to answer a question about litigiousness.
They could find out by reading the title of the thread.
My apologies - I didn't recognise it as the name of a parking company.

The Flame Pit / Re: Cashless,,,tis the future Rodders.
« on: February 23, 2024, 01:54:48 pm »
The same should happen with paying for parking.   For example there's a car park at a tourist attraction in Hounslow where if you can't for any reason use their app to pay the nearest place you can use cash to pay is a 20 minute walk away.

The Flame Pit / Re: SABA on TfL land
« on: February 23, 2024, 01:50:25 pm »
It's rare (unknown??) in my experience for TfL to manage their own car parks, so I guess people will need to know who manages this one (e.g. NCP) to answer a question about litigiousness.

OOI, if you don't update your V5, where do they send VED & MOT reminders?

Great that the PCN got cancelled, and kudos to Hippocrates.
But it seems as though the victory was down to procedural/"technicality" issues (which I'm not trying to trivialise - it's vital that authorities do things properly).  But now that they've got the cameras certified so they can be used, if next time they don't mess up the procedural aspects, some poor schmuck of a driver is going to have a much harder time.
And yet as the OP observed, there is absolutely no way to access those parking spaces without driving in the bus lane, which seems utterly bonkers to me.  Is this sort of thing common?  I've seen loads of bus lanes (got done-but-not-done for using one once), but never one between a road and parking spaces.   Are they mad?


Thanks for that offer - if you no longer have time because this was late please let me know & I'll sort something.
One photo - PNG is better, but have also included a JPG in case the PNG is too large.


Re the CPZ entry signs, I've not taken photos of them.  I could, tomorrow, but I don't believe that any case for them being obscured could be made.  The ones on GSV show them as they are, pretty much.

Subject to seasonal variations in leaf cover obscuring the one on the RHS of the road in the top photo (if you zoom in on that one you can just about make out where it is).

I don't know to what extent that one would have been covered in October when the contravention occurred, but the one on the driver's side of the road is never obscured, and as I have lived in the CPZ since before it was created I would have driven past that sign thousands of times.    What I'm trying to say is that I can't envisage any credible case for claiming that I couldn't have known about the CPZ because of signage issues.

As I said earlier, there are only two entrances to the CPZ, at points marked A & B on this map:

In the photo, A is the top one, B the bottom.  At location B there is still only the one sign on the LHS of what is a single track road.

I've got 28 days from when the NTO was served to make representations.  They don't say when they regard it as having been served, but if we assume that they use the same system of second working day after the date of posting which they did for the rejection of my initial appeal, then with an NTO date of 04/01 that takes me to 05/02/24.

All I can think to do is to ask them to use their discretion to cancel the charge, because of the following:

1) There are signs on lamp posts along the road in question which could be taken to mean that the SYL has different restrictions to the CPZ, and to add weight to that

a) the fact that within the CPZ there is at least one SYL with a sign which does carry different hours to the CPZ times


I'll take a photo of that tomorrow - seems like a good candidate to upload and set up a view counter?

b) referencing documents from several other London councils which establish the principle that there can be SYLs within CPZs which define different restrictions to the CPZ.

2) In mitigation that I was parked across the driveway of my own house because I had a skip there which prevented me from parking on it, so I was not causing any obstruction or inconvenience to others.

I know it's all a bit straw-clutchy, but it's all I've got...

And apologies for not getting back with this sooner - been meaning to do it for days, but have been swamped with getting stuff back into the house from storage now that the builders have finally gone...

If it's too late for you to help I'll quite understand, but if I could at least beg the details of how to set up a click counter (or is it Linkly?)

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