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Messages - mdar50743

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1
Plonkers. The costs regulations need to be lessened.

If there is such a thing as reincarnation, knowing my luck, I'll come back as a PCN

2
Look at my #3. No really useful advice can be given until we see the signage and if there are any advance warning signs on your approach.
There may also be a "technical" appeal argument, so wait and see if anything is suggested, but don't miss the payment/appeal deadline.

Just an update on the above PCN. Thank you for your help, always appreciated.

Dear Sir / Madam

Penalty Charge Notice Date of Contravention Vehicle Registration Location
06/07/2026
: HZ96427434
: 08/01/2026 at 22:25
: xx xx xxx
: RMV Sawley Rd Westbnd nr Jct Bloemfontein Rd (va)

Thank you for writing to us about the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
After carefully considering your case, and without prejudice to our position, I have decided to use our discretion to cancel this PCN. Please be advised that we consider all cases individually, and so other PCNs issued in similar circumstances may not be cancelled.

This PCN was issued because the vehicle was observed and recorded by an unattended camera, ignoring a ‘No Motor Vehicle’ except buses, taxis, and permit holders’ sign. Private hire vehicles are not automatically exempt. The exemption applies only to Hackney Carriages.

The restrictions are clearly signposted and are placed at different points prior to entering and within the restricted area. These restrictions apply 24 hours a day, 7 days a week including Bank Holidays.
Ignoring traffic signs can lead to traffic delays, accidents, and risks to other road users. It can also delay emergency services vehicles.

Drivers have a responsibility to comply with all signs and markings relating to road traffic restrictions and directions. I am therefore satisfied that the PCN was correctly issued.
Motorists who are visiting residents of the borough may use the restricted side roads routes if given access by the resident. Access through the cameras can be given to visitors, delivery drivers or tradespeople, by activating a visitor session through RingGo.

Any non-resident can reach any property in the area without needing to go through a camera. Delivery drivers and tradespeople can use these alternative routes, via Uxbridge Road.
The Wormholt neighbourhood improvement project only restricts the use of certain roads in the Wormholt area by out-of-borough motorists. Cameras have been installed to discourage out-of-borough motorists from using our streets as cut throughs. They are at:

•   •  Steventon Road near the junction with Old Oak Road
•   •  Bryony Road near the junction with Bloemfontein Road
•   •  Sawley Road near the junction with Bloemfontein Road

For more information on the project, please go to Wormholt neighbourhood improvement trial FAQs | London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham

A recording of the contravention can be viewed on-line by following the links on the Parking pages at the Councils web site http://www.lbhf.gov.uk or directly at https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/pcn (select the link to "Challenge a Fine and View Images” and follow the instructions) - The video can be seen below the photos
Photos can be viewed by clicking on the different numbers below the image displayed on screen to move between them.

Yours faithfully
x xxxx
Telephone: 02073715678
Web: www.lbhf.gov.uk/parking

3
Thank you for your reply. I just don't understand why they haven't transferred the liability to the driver. I have had fines before and they had given me the opportunity to appeal and refund me the fine minus the admin fee.

I am planning to send this to Hertz:

Dear Customer Relations Team,

I am writing to make a formal complaint regarding the Penalty Charge Notice issued by the London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham in relation to my recent vehicle rental.
I understand and accept that, under the terms of the rental agreement, I am responsible for any valid traffic penalties incurred during my rental period. However, I am concerned by the manner in which this PCN was handled.

The PCN was issued to Hertz as the registered keeper of the vehicle. As I understand it, hire companies have the option of making representations to the issuing authority that the vehicle was on hire at the relevant time and providing the required hire documentation. This would allow liability to be transferred to the hirer, who would then have the opportunity to review the evidence and, where appropriate, exercise their statutory right to challenge the PCN.

Instead, Hertz chose to pay the PCN directly and subsequently recharge me. As a result, I was denied any opportunity to review the CCTV evidence, assess whether the alleged contravention had occurred, or exercise any appeal rights that would otherwise have been available had liability been transferred to me.

While I appreciate that Hertz may rely on its terms and conditions to recover the cost of penalties, I believe it is unfair that a decision was made to settle the matter without first giving me the opportunity to respond to the allegation or challenge the PCN through the normal statutory process.
I would therefore be grateful if Hertz could:
1.   Explain why liability was not transferred to me as the hirer.
2.   Provide a copy of the full CCTV evidence and any correspondence exchanged with the council regarding this PCN.
3.   Review this matter and consider reimbursing the charge, or alternatively provide a goodwill gesture in recognition of the fact that I was deprived of any opportunity to contest the allegation.

I look forward to receiving your response and a full explanation of Hertz's handling of this matter.

Yours faithfully,
XXx xxxx

4
Thank you for your reply and totally agree with the comment. It's just been very hard renting a pco car with flexibility.

The reply I received when I got this PCN was:

Dear xxxx,
 
Following your reservation, we have been contacted by the local authority regarding a fine that was picked up during your rental.
 
Please find the relevant fine attached.
 
One of the conditions of rental is that if Hertz TNC is required to pay and/or process road tolls, fines, charges, or associated costs, we will charge you with the amount we are required to pay plus an administration charge for doing so. By accepting our terms and conditions have given us permission to deduct and such charges from your supplied method of payment.
 
Additional charges that you will be responsible for,
 
d. If we are required to process any accident claims, road fines, parking fines or any other fines relating to the time the vehicle was in your possession or left parked after your rental, prior to the vehicle being rented out again, you will be charged an administration charge for dealing with it. You will also be responsible for paying any fines.
 
e. By agreeing to these terms and conditions, you authorise us to deduct all charges from your credit or Visa debit card."
Please find attached copy of the fine, if payment is successful then you will see the invoice marked as paid, if not then payment needs to be made. Please contact us to make payment.
 
If you do not agree to this fine, please reply to this email FinesTNC@hertz.com and we will be happy to assist or advise on next steps. Please DO NOT go via the chat app to discuss this fine as it’s a separate team dealing with the traffic violations.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Hertz TNC Member Care Centre

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I did reply and said:

Dear Hertz Team,

Thank you for your email.

I would like to inform you that I am currently challenging the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) with the issuing authority. Once I have received the outcome of the appeal and, if successful, confirmation that the PCN has been overturned, I will provide you with the relevant documentation and update you accordingly.

In the meantime, I would appreciate it if you could note that the PCN is under formal appeal.

Thank you for your understanding. I will be in touch as soon as I receive the appeal decision.

Kind regards,
xxx xxxx

5
Hi everyone,

I'm hoping someone with experience of this type of PCN can offer some advice.

I've received a PCN for contravention code 3Lj – Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited**, at **Box Junction, Shepherds Bush Road adjacent to 210.

https://ibb.co/XfGk65FX

I've never received a box junction PCN before, so I'm a bit confused about the circumstances. As I remember the incident, the traffic was moving and I was moving with it the whole time. I don't recall being stationary for any significant period, so I'm struggling to understand whether even stopping for a second or two would be enough for the council to issue a PCN.

The other complication is that the vehicle was a rental car. Under the rental company's terms and conditions, they have already paid the PCN and charged it back to me, which means I don't appear to have any formal way accessing the video evidence through the normal process.

Does anyone have experience with this specific box junction location or this type of contravention? Also, is there any way for me to view the CCTV footage after the rental company has already paid the PCN? If anyone knows of a link or process that might allow me to check the video evidence, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

6
Look at my #3. No really useful advice can be given until we see the signage and if there are any advance warning signs on your approach.
There may also be a "technical" appeal argument, so wait and see if anything is suggested, but don't miss the payment/appeal deadline.

Thank you for your reply. I received the PCN addressed to me on the 20/03.

I have drafted a email response. Could anyone please check it and add or delete anything that is required.




Dear Sir or Madam,
I make formal representations against the above Penalty Charge Notice on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. In the alternative, I rely on compelling mitigating circumstances and procedural impropriety.
 
1. The restriction was not adequately conveyed (Regulation 18 breach)
Under Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996, the authority is under a duty to ensure that traffic signs adequately convey the effect of any restriction.
At this location, the signage fails this requirement for the following reasons:
•   There is no adequate advance warning of the restriction prior to the point of commitment.
•   The restriction signage is positioned at an angle such that it is not clearly visible to approaching motorists until it is too late to safely comply.
•   The signage is small, visually cluttered, and not sufficiently prominent relative to surrounding signage.
It is well established in tribunal decisions that a restriction is unenforceable where a motorist is not given sufficient opportunity to see, understand, and comply with the restriction before committing to the manoeuvre.
 
2. Inadequate visibility at night
The alleged contravention occurred at approximately 22:25 hours. At this time:
•   Lighting conditions were poor
•   The signage was not sufficiently illuminated or reflective
•   The restriction was not reasonably visible to a driver exercising due care
A restriction that is not clearly visible in night-time conditions cannot be said to be adequately conveyed.
 
3. Failure to provide advance warning
The restriction is part of a recently introduced Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) scheme in the Wormholt area.
There is no adequate advance signage alerting drivers prior to entering Sawley Road that motor vehicles are prohibited ahead. As a result, the restriction only becomes apparent after the driver has already committed to the route.
Tribunal decisions consistently confirm that:
A driver cannot be expected to comply with a restriction that is only visible after the point of commitment.
 
4. Signage orientation and positioning
Evidence from this location shows that:
•   Restriction signs are positioned at an angle (effectively side-on) to approaching traffic
•   In some cases, signage faces traffic from the opposite direction
A sign that is not facing oncoming traffic does not satisfy the legal requirement to adequately convey a restriction.
 
5. Legitimate expectation & recent scheme
I have used this route on previous occasions without any restriction being apparent. The introduction of this scheme appears to be recent.
Where a new restriction is introduced, the authority is expected to ensure:
•   Clear and prominent signage
•   Adequate warning to regular users
This has not been achieved.
 
6. Supporting case principles
I rely on established tribunal principles that:
•   A PCN must be cancelled where signage is unclear, inadequately positioned, or not visible in prevailing conditions
•   Restrictions must be communicated clearly before the decision point
•   Enforcement cannot rely on signage that requires unsafe or last-second manoeuvres
These principles have been repeatedly upheld in London Tribunal decisions, including cases involving the London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham.
 
7. Request for evidence
Should the authority not cancel the PCN, I require the following:
•   The Traffic Management Order for this restriction
•   Full signage layout plans
•   Evidence of signage positioning and orientation on the date in question
•   Maintenance and illumination records
•   The full CCTV footage
 
Conclusion
For the reasons set out above, the restriction was not adequately conveyed and the alleged contravention did not occur.
I therefore request that the PCN be cancelled.
If the authority is not minded to cancel, I will have no hesitation in pursuing this matter to adjudication.

Yours faithfully,

7
Bump

Just curious if anyone has advice to appeal this.

9
Is/was the vehicle hired for a period of less than 6 months or is it leased?

It's vitally important.

I can confirm the car was hired less than 6 months

10
OK. So until you get a PCN with your name and address at the top, you can do, (and should do), nothing.

On receipt of the representations from Hertz, the council cancel the first PCN, then have 28 days to send out a second PCN to you. At that point, you can either pay the discount, or submit representations.

Hi, just an update. I have been transferred the liability and this is the link:

https://imgpile.com/p/ycf9FDr

Any advice to appeal would be appreciated.

11
OK. So until you get a PCN with your name and address at the top, you can do, (and should do), nothing.

On receipt of the representations from Hertz, the council cancel the first PCN, then have 28 days to send out a second PCN to you. At that point, you can either pay the discount, or submit representations.

Apology for the delayed reply. I’ve been quite sick.

Thank you for your reply.

When I checked the Council Website I have no idea why the fine is now at £160 even though I never had any prior knowledge about it. I am assuming that Hertz have made administrative error that's meant that I never received the fine.

I have asked a friend to make photos for me about the contravention.

Link to the photos for any appeal: https://imgpile.com/p/2Lp9o54



12
So who's name and address was on the PCN you received ?  This is the first time you'v e mentioned that it is a lease car. Knowing whether a car is owned or is leased/hired is crucial for us to give advice.

Under the legislation, the owner of the vehicle as recorded on the V5C Registration Certificate for the vehicle has responsibility for payment or appealing, but hire and lease companies can submit reps that they are a hire/lease company, and pass on name and address of the hirer on the date of the alleged c ontravention. A second PCN is then served on that name and address and the first one cancelled.

I think the links to the PCN isn’t working I have uploaded them again:
https://imgpile.com/p/vNJ3k4t#Rjk8QIG
https://imgpile.com/p/vNJ3k4t#dQtCdRF
https://imgpile.com/p/vNJ3k4t#x16igph

The name and address was the leasing company (Hertz).

I understand what you have mentioned, I never got any information form the Hire company until 12/02 by email:

Dear Sir,

We have been notified of a traffic offence committed for the period during which the vehicle with registration xxxxxx  was in your possession.

Your details have been passed to the relevant authority and if you have not already done so, you will soon a Penalty Charge Notification directly from the authority addressed to you. At this point you can appeal the ticket directly with the authority if you so wish.

There are circumstances where the authority rejects our application to transfer liability to you; in which case, we will notify you once we receive the Notice. It is imperative that you deal with the Notice immediately upon receipt.

Please, note that if the fine fee has been increased at the time if this fine notification, don't pay the increased fee as this copy of the ticket is for information purposes only for you.

We transferred the liability of the fine to you within 28 days as per the rules. Hence, you should not pay the increased fee. We will advise you appeal to the local authority to return the fee to its original charge while explaining their rule.

As per the rental agreement, there is an administration fee of 20.00 per fine which is now paid on your account. Please find the attached copies of the fine and the invoice can be located on your app.

Please only reply to this email if you require assistance and ensure you follow the above instructions. If you haven’t followed the above instructions, then we are unable to assist you further.

Kind regards,
Hertz


13
Looking at the photo I must have turned right. It was late at night and I genuinely didn’t see any clear or obvious sign saying I couldn’t go right. I’m not from that area, although I’ve driven through that road many times before, so I was really shocked to receive a PCN letter.

Does anyone know if first-time contraventions are ever cancelled, especially if the restriction looks very new?
They sometimes are. If you want to fight it, you must be prepared to forego the discount, and take them to London Tribunals. For advice on this, we'd need to see photos of the signage, incl. whether there are any advance warning signs, especially for those making a left turn.

Just an update. I got home and just realised I never got a letter in the post from the rental company or at my house. So, the fine to this the went up to £180 and they sent me a email on 12/02.

Can I send an email to Hertz explaining they liable for the fine as I never for a copy of the fine in the first place so I couldn't pay the fine within the 14 day window?

T & Conditions - https://resources.hz-hertz.com/publishing/publishing/terms/URP_Rental_Terms_Feb25.pdf

14
Thank you for your reply. I will try do get a photo as soon as I can.

I don't know if anyone has come across this but any suggestions or help would be appreciated. I have emailed enquiries@lbhfparking.com.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing regarding PCN Number xxxxxx (Car Registration: xxxxx, Date of Notice: 16/01/2026) issued by the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham.

I am currently on holiday with very limited internet access. I have only just checked my emails and saw correspondence from my rental company, dated 12 February 2026, informing me that a fine had been issued. I have attached a screenshot of their email for your reference.

As I have been away and without reliable internet access, I was unaware of this PCN. There has also been no one at my home with knowledge of this matter. Had I been aware of the notice earlier, I would have submitted an appeal immediately.
Upon attempting to log into the council’s website to review and appeal the PCN, I have unfortunately been unable to access the system. I have attached a screenshot showing the issue I encountered when trying to log in.

I have now noticed that the PCN charge has increased to £180 Given that I have only just become aware of the notice due to the circumstances explained above, I respectfully request that you consider resetting the case to the original amount and allowing me the opportunity to formally appeal.

I would be grateful for your understanding and assistance in this matter. Please let me know if you require any further information from me.

15
Looking at the photo I must have turned right. It was late at night and I genuinely didn’t see any clear or obvious sign saying I couldn’t go right. I’m not from that area, although I’ve driven through that road many times before, so I was really shocked to receive a PCN letter.

Does anyone know if first-time contraventions are ever cancelled, especially if the restriction looks very new?

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