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Messages - Enceladus

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1
Hi all,

Thanks for replies so far.

The original PCN I appealed online using their system of appeal. The NTO which was sent only allowed representation by post.

I am not trying to hide anything, i genuinely believe the NTO was appealed within time limit although from the information that has been highlighted then possibly not. Unfortunately it was not sent by registered post - that is a lesson learnt.
You are mistaken. You could have submitted formal represenations (challenge) against the NTO (Notice to Owner) online. It's the tab called 'Make a Challenge/Represenatation' on the PCN Main Display page. In general it's best to use the online system where available as in most cases you will get an acknowledgement email confirming something was submitted and when.

And going forward if you have to use Royal Mail then it's only necessary to post such letters 1st class at the Post Office Counter, so never in a Post Box. Ask for and keep safe a free of charge Proof of Posting, you don't need to use recorded or special delivery. In most cases it won't make any difference as to when the recipient actually opens the mail in the mail sack and logs it onto the computer system. All you need to be able to do is demonstrate when you posted the letter. It's deemed served on the Council two working days after the day of posting.

Anyway your formal represenations against the NTO have been rejected, but the discount option has been reset. See the 'Key Events' log below. So now you need to decide if you want to pay up the £25 or appeal to the Adjudicator. If you appeal then you'll be in for the full £50 if you lose the case.

It also looks like the Charge Certificate has been cancelled.

Please post up the Notice of Rejection as soon as it arrives so we can check the posibilities for an appeal.

"PCN events
Date
Description
13/09/2024 12:17 Off hold no compensate
13/09/2024 12:17 Rejected Representation - Discount Period Reset
13/09/2024 12:17 Rep received General Representation
13/09/2024 12:17 Revert to pre- Charge Certificate
13/09/2024 12:17 Off Hold Compensate
13/09/2024 12:17 Discount Period Reset
02/09/2024 15:39 On Hold: Representation Received
30/08/2024 10:06 Charge Certificate Issued
26/07/2024 10:16 NTO/Enforcement Notice Issued
25/07/2024 14:31 Revert to pre-NTO
25/07/2024 14:31 Representation Accepted
25/07/2024 14:29 Off hold no compensate
25/07/2024 14:29 Representation Accepted
25/07/2024 14:29 Rep received We are a hire firm
25/07/2024 14:29 Revert to pre-NTO
24/07/2024 12:07 On Hold: Representation Received
17/07/2024 10:16 NTO/Enforcement Notice Issued
16/07/2024 16:34 Off hold no compensate
16/07/2024 16:34 Representation Accepted
16/07/2024 16:34 Rep received Any other ground
16/07/2024 16:34 Revert to pre-NTO
15/07/2024 15:42 On Hold: Representation Received
21/06/2024 10:16 NTO/Enforcement Notice Issued
21/05/2024 16:05 Off Hold Compensate
21/05/2024 16:05 Discount Period Reset
20/05/2024 13:47 On Hold: Challenge Received"

2
The warrant is a Local Authority Warrant of Control. It is issued by the Council to the Enforcement Agents. The warrant does not have a physical or printed seal. However the LA can only issue it when it has been authorised by the TEC.

In so far as I understand the enforcement rules the bailiff has to provide you with a printed copy of the warrant if you ask for it, or a copy of the electronic record if you're happy with that. If the bailiff refuses to give you a copy then it probably means that the warrant has expired or more likely the warrant is for a different address.

Where the bailiff attempts to enforce a warrant but you don't live there, then the bailiff can seek to trace your correct current address. If this is successful then the Council needs to apply for the warrant to be re-sealed (re-aurhorised) with the new address.

By now the Council know your current address because the TEC will have informed them of the address used on your Out of Time and Witness Statement forms. You mentioned an office address, the bailiff can try and enforce there when he has an updated warrant.

As to an N244 application, the fee for a review by a district judge is £119 for a hearing on the papers only. And £303 for a hearing in person. And you won't get the fee refunded even if you get the case before the adjudicator and win. And given the complexity of your case I would only recommend the hearing in person.

You can also get advice from Bailiff Advice Online.

3
"01 Sep 2024 TEC rejected my declaration and made an order, copy of the redacted order is linked below as ‘2024 TEC ORDER’.
I had to pay for a copy of this order and noticed that TEC keyed in my address incorrectly!! After speaking with TEC on the phone they have now amended my address on their system."


Where is the TEC order? I don't see it.
Who did you have to pay and how much?

I rather fear you've totally confused the TEC office and the Council by conflating a challenge against the PCN with a Witness Statement and an Out of Time application to the TEC. The only issue the court official is alowed to consider are your reasons for being late (Out of Time) with your Witness Statement.

You may have to make an N244 application to have the TEC refusal reviewd by a district judge. And there is a strict time limit to get that submitted. It might not be financially worth it.

How much does the bailiff want? And have ypu ever had a Notice of Enforcement from the bailiff? I guess not if they don't have your address?

4
@Kurtcat

How did you submit your formal representation against the Notice to Owner? Was it online or by Royal Mail?

If online did you get an emailed acknowledgement / receipt?
If by Royal Mail post did you obtain a proof of posting or a recorded delivery receipt?

WS = Witness Statement

5
Double ouch, ouch!
Please confirm that you emailed the TEC to submit a Witness Statement?
And against which PCN?

What is the deadline to submit your Witness Statement? IE the date on the Order for Recovery?

Please print off and keep safe all the email bounce messages.

6
For future reference, if you need to display the BB clock then the time should be set to the nearest quarter hour after arrival. Not earlier. So arrive at anytime between 17:31 and 17:45 then the clock should be set to 17:45. If you set the clock earlier then you are depriving yourself of some of the exemption, usually 3 hours, that you are entitled to.

Although at least one of the other signs for the non-disabled bays implies that there are no restictions after 18:00pm, this isn't what the disabled bay sign says. Confusing I would argue, and it might be the traffic order says something different.

Perhaps our hard working administrator @cp8759 can locate the traffic order?

8
Tried to upload a longer answer but this website wouldn't permit it.

Have now started on a paper complaint using the fact they already admitted the June charge was wrongly applied.
I assume you mean you were trying to upload some documents or images. There is limited storage space on the forum so you need to host documents and images elsewhere and include the links to them in your posts on here.

The instructions are to be found in the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky post at the top of page 1 of the forum.

9
The respondent has to complete the Witness Statement. That's the person named on the Notice to Owner or the postal PCN and/or the Order for Recovery.

The respondent would normally be the registered keeper. Who was driving is irrelevant. The vehicle owner is liable for the penalty and the RK is presumed to be the owner unless proved otherwise.

Make sure to tick only one box for grounds. The box that says "I made representations about the penalty charge to the enforcing authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner, but did not receive a rejection notice".

The TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court) will order the Order for Recovery revoked and the Charge Certificate cancelled. The case should then be referred to the independent Adjudicator for direction on how to proceed, if the Council want to continue to pursue the PCN.

PS.
Complete the Witness Statement, sign and date, then sacn to PDF or JPEG and attach to an email to the TEC. The email address is on the WS (TE9) form. You should get an immediate email acknowledgement receipt. Keep that safe.

If you have to use Royal Mail, then post at the Post Office Counter well before last post. Request and keep safe a 'proof of posting'.

10
Maybe I've missed it, it seems they haven't reoffered the discount ant the full penalty of £70. That being the case you might as well appeal to the Adjudicator as you have no financial incentive to do otherwise.

11
Private parking tickets / Re: CPM notice to hirer - appeal response
« on: September 03, 2024, 02:08:38 pm »
This concerns a private Parking Charge Notice. It needs to be moved to the private parking forum.

12
I don't know the exact amounts for a judge review, but it's around £115 for a papers-based review, and circa £460 for an interview with the judge "in chambers". Without some hard information on when your V5 was updated, it is difficult to see any OOTs succeeding. You can get a "second opinion" here: -
www.baillifadviceonline.co.uk

At the moment, the amounts are at their minimum, with the amount owing the council, plus the bailiff £75 fee for each PCN. If bailiffs visit, you get another £235 added on to the amount for each PCN.

In a situation like this, it is best to pay the amount demanded to prevent it going up even more. Paying has no effect on whether an OOT will succeed or not, so I think you need to consider your next step very carefully. TEC are taking ages to process OOTs at the moment, and what you don't want is the bailiffs sneaking in and adding £235 x 3 to the amount demanded. I'm afraid that cases like yours that we frequently see on this forum, rarely turn out well, sorry to have to say it.

The enforcement agent (bailiff) can only load £235 once onto the charges owing, no matter how many Notices of Enforcement (one for each PCN) are being enforced.

The fee for a review by a district judge is £119 for a hearing on the papers only. And £303 for a hearing in person. One fee payable for each application for a review, one review per PCN. The fees are not refundable and cannot normally be claimed as costs even if your appeals to the Adjudicator are ultimately successful. The only exception is if your are entitled to an EX160 fee remission.

The advice to pay up now and then submit Out of Time Statutory Declarations at a later date is not without risks. This advice only came in during Covid and post Covid as there are long delays with the TEC informing the Enforcement Authorities that an Out of Time application has been submitted. This leaves you unprotected from the bailiff duing the delay.

Pre Covid the TEC would inform the EA electronically each day of any such applications received before 4pm on a working day. The EA was then compelled to call of bailiff enforcement immediately until the TEC had issued a decision. Leave it too long between payamnt and OOT and the Enforcement Authority will object on the grounds that you closed the case.

13
The BB can be used in any car. A car that is registered in the 'Disabled' VED (car tax) class is Congestion Charge exempt and that is picked up automatically.

A car not in the disabled VED class can be manually registered for the exemption by a BB holder, but this has to be done in advance.

So is the family member the owner of the vehicle?
Check the V5c registration document for the car. The name and address must be incorrect or out of date. Don't just assume, actually check

Or is the owner of the car a lease or rental or finance company or maybe a company car? In which cases the V5c may not be in your family members name and address.

Or is this a Motabilty car?

Three letters are missing. The PCN, the Charge Certificate and the Order for Recovery (of unpaid penalty charge).

14
If you want to have the best possible and most comprehensive advice then please follow the instructions in the sticky post at the top of this forum READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!**. It's only required to redact your name & address where it's present. Please leave all other information visible, especially the PCN reference numbers, the vehicle reg, all dates and times and locations and the like.

15
Please post up the PCN. Don't redact anything.
And also a Google Street View of the P&D bay where the car was parked. And a GSV of where it was moved to.

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