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Messages - correcthaunt

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1
Claim History was updated
DQ sent to you on 21/01/2025
DQ filed by claimant on 21/01/2025
You filed a DQ on 28/01/2025

And I got a Confirmation e-mail for a Mediation Appointment in early March. I do have a couple of questions regarding the e-mail:
1.
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You must make sure you have provided us with, or confirmed, the name and number of the person who will be conducting the mediation appointment. If you have not done this, or need to update your telephone number, you should contact us using the details at the end of this letter no less than 5 working days before your mediation appointment. Failure to do so may result in your mediation appointment not taking place and may result in a Judge issuing a penalty where the mediation was mandatory.

I put my details on the DQ so in theory they should already have everything. Does it mean I need to supply my info separately all it's fine as it it? They highlighted this in red.

2.
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Explaining your position. You will need to briefly explain your claim or defence to the mediator. You should prepare for yourself a brief summary of the main points.

What should I do here? Read the previously submitted defence? Prepare something new? Should I talk about what has happened from driver's perspective?

2
If you've given a good reason (which you have) I imagine they will accommodate your request.

Understood thank you for this. This has now been sent:


And got an auto-response from both parties:

Court:


DCB Legal:


@b789 has kindly explained that this case is 99% likely to be discontinued.

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You will receive your own DQ and you will have to complete it and send it to both the court and DCB Legal. After that you will receive a date for a mediation phone call. You are required to "attend" the call but it is not part of the actual judicial process and does not involve any judge or solicitor. It is a complete waste of time in cases like this and you simply offer £0 and I tis over in minutes and has no bearing on the process.

Eventually the case will be allocated to your local county court and you'll receive a date for a hearing if the claim hasn't already been struck out. The claimant has to pay the £27 trial fee around a month before the hearing. They will discontinue before having to pay that fee.

If they don't and you are the only one out of thousands I will have seen that has to go all the way to a hearing, you'd have to make your Witness Statement and send it to the court no later than (usually) 14 days before the hearing.

I will confirm once I had the phonecall. And if there is any help needed with the Witness Statement.

3
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When you receive your own N180 (make sure it is not simply a copy of the claimants N180), do not use the paper form. Ignore all the other forms that came with it. you can discard those.

Yes this just came through in the post today.


 
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If your MCOL says it has been sent but you haven’t received it yet, just download your DQ own here and fill it in on your computer. You sign it by simply typing your full name in the signature box.

I have it on MCOL as well:



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• F1: Whichever is your nearest county court. Use this to find it: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/search-option
Thanks for the help with the form @b789, I have done exactly as you said and put down: “Central London County Court Thomas More Building Strand London WC2A 2LL I am in London so much that it's much easier for me than in Bristol.”

Would this be an issue to have it in London given my home address is in Bristol? I am in London so much that it’s much easier for me than in Bristol.

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When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.
As soon as you confirm regarding the court address I will do that. Do I need to send them anything else? Like my defence etc? or just the DQ form?

4
Hi @b789,

The below response from DCB was sent over, saying that they have reviewed my defence and that their client intends to proceed, and that I can call them to discuss settlement. They also included a copy of their N180DQ.



MCOL is still unchanged;
•   Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 09/12/2024 at 15:42:35
•   Your acknowledgment of service was received on 09/12/2024 at 16:05:06
•   Your defence was received on 21/12/2024

Questions
1.   I guess they need to now actually post it to the court, right? They also asked for the court hearing to be near their address.
2.   Does that mean I would need to go up north if this was to go to court?
3.   What does it need to say for me to be able to send the N180DQ?

5
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PN76007402: You say that you made representations both online and by post, do you have a screenshot of the confirmation page or an acknowledgment email confirming that you made representations?

Yes I have submitted my defence and got evidence of posting it both via post office as well as online. In the original post of this thread we have a copy of my representation submitted to them, and picture/screenshot of acknowledgments. Proof of the online submission is W26800139 but it doesn’t state the actual PCN on it. That’s just Newham’s system though

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Also I note you made a Subject Access Request for this PCN, correct me if I'm wrong but this is still outstanding so for all we know, it might be that the council did receive your representation and it's the Notice of Rejection that got lost in the post?
Correct as per your suggestion I have asked them for a copy of the rejection. They said they would get back to me by 30th of January but nothing since. Even though they have provided the copies of the other request already. They did send me a letter saying to get in touch if I am struggling financially to repay it as they could help. I have posted a copy of that letter too.

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PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643: for these you really have nothing at all to worry about as the council is guilty of a gross delay in progressing the case, have a read of Paul Richard Davis v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998)
Understood, so I should complain to the council to have this registered with TEC. Once this is done I can appeal. Only way to really get this closed off?

6
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Are you satisfied that the address they are using is the one you will use for service of documents? If not, you will need to respond and inform them that they need to use your other address for service. If not, then you can just wait for the actual N1SDT Claim Form to arrive.
Yes it’s fine, I don’t mind if they go to London or Bristol one as long as they do get delivered... I am at both pretty much every other day so it’s no difference.

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Additionally, the claimant’s bulk litigator, Moorside Legal, is known to issue claims that breach CPR 16.4(1)(a) by failing to include a clear statement of facts in the Particulars of Claim (PoC). Based on persuasive appeal case law, including CEL v Chan [2023] and CPMS v Akande [2024], it is highly likely that the first claim will be struck out at the allocation stage for failing to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). Therefore, it is expected that the first claim will not proceed to a hearing due to these procedural errors.
I am happy and want to go with option 2 but I have to be honest, I would need a bit more hand holding throughout the process as I struggled to follow the detail. I understood that this could have been combined into 1 claim as they are basically the same allegation happening on 2 different dates. That alone will be my defence to struck the 2nd claim correct?

Either way they have literally changed the signage since the driver parked there so I doubt they would be able to prove that the driver didn’t comply with the “contractual signage“... I will wait for the court claim letters to arrive so I can add this to MCOL. Would you be able to help with the defence when the time comes?



7
@Enceladus, thanks for taking the time and looking into this.

You understanding and summary is correct.

There were 6 PCNs in total.
#1 PN75748188 – paid and case closed
#2 PN75748213 – paid and case closed
#3 PN76007402 – This is what the post is about re Albert Way
#4 PN62628875 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.
#5 PN62645400 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.
#6 PN62647643 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.

Council made a mistake with the first two so when writing to them I found out about the #4, #5 & #6 which are for the car being in the yellow box. I am going to sit tight and wait for them to register the debt with the Traffic Enforcement Centre.

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I note that the Ack receipt for your reps doesn't actually quote the PCN number, just an enquiry number. Is that true of the online Ack emails for the other PCNs?
Yes this is true for the other 2. I submitted my defence for PN75748188, PN75748213 & PN76007402. These were then posted to them too. I have 3 different references for that and none of them refers to the actual PCN.

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The V5c for your car was last updated 07/09/2021. So I would suggest that the Registered Keeper address was likely incorrect prior to Sept 2021 and this is why you did not receive any of the notices for these three PCNs.
I requested a copy of these PCNs as per advice from @cp8759 and the address they had on file was indeed incorrect. I am not sure how this happened as I have been there since 2012 and because everything else is correct (first line, city and postcode) except the house number. It should be 39 but it’s 33. So, they sent this to a wrong address.

Re PN76007402 I want to appeal to the Adjudicator and I am quite confident it can be won as I have seen quite a lot of people here win this. That said, not so confident regarding the other 3. Although I have no faith that this will get ever registered as it has been so long that they would have done by now. That said I would like to know 2 things regarding them:
1. What would be my line of defence here for PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643?
2. Is there statutory limitation period i.e. an expiration date for council to register this with TEC?

Statutory Declaration (form PE3)
I also would like to clarify the process surrounding the Statutory Declaration (form PE3) & debt registration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC). Can I sign and have witnesses sign the PE3 form before the debt is officially registered with the TEC? I.e. can the date on the PE3 form precede the date of registration with TEC ensuring it's ready to submit as soon as the debt is registered? I am aware that I cannot submit the PE3 to the court or TEC until after the debt has been registered as it will get rejected.

8
@Incandescent, thanks for getting back to me. Only PN76007402 is at Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions Round. The other 3 (i.e. PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643) refer to a different location also in Newham but I found out about it while dealing with PN76007402 hence in this thread.

9
PN76007402
Why wouldn’t the council get my representations? I posted all 3 together and they responded to the first two.
The post office receipt suggests you sent three separate letters in three separate envelopes. Royal Mail used to be 99.97% reliable back in the day, but that all stopped with Covid and they never really recovered, see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8nkj2k237o and https://www.thecomet.net/news/24098443.anger-rogue-postman-dumped-peoples-letters/ and https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6513571/postman-sacked (I'm sure there's many more).

So, we'll never know why but for whatever reason one of the three envelopes was never received, it is what it is.

As for the Order for Recovery, you could just rely on the Royal Mail delivering it, but if the postie throws it in a hedge you then have a real problem.

You don't need to call TEC, just check the amount on the council website every couple of weeks, once the penalty goes up from £195 to £205 you know that the debt has been registered.

For PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643 you could raise a formal complaint on the grounds of undue delay using the complaint form here: https://www.newham.gov.uk/contact-information/make-complaint/2

If you go down the complaint route you need to make it very clear that you're not complaining about the PCNs or asking them to cancel them, you're only complaining about the undue delay in the council following the statutory process, and make it clear that all you want them to do is carry on with the next statutory step i.e. register the debt with TEC. Maybe post a draft on here first.

PN76007402
I hear you regarding the post office and that's fine, although I would imagine they should have received it. That said, I still submitted it online so either way they should have gotten it somehow.

Checking the website once a week won't be a problem so that should be fine.

PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643
Say I do the complaint, and they proceed to register it. I then do the PE3, and it starts the process again.

What happens then? How do I go about getting it dismissed? I would be happy to pay £65 for the first one only. Had I actually received it, I would have paid the £65 and be extra careful with that box and never let the other two happen.

Also that camera has been since destroyed by someone so not sure if this helps me or not as it clearly worked at the time

10
@correcthaunt for PN76007402 obviously the council never received your representations. You send a representation by post, that was obviously a mistake: anything you send by post gets scanned into the computer and the paper copy is immediately shredded, so it's a massive waste of time. If you make a representation online it goes directly into the council computer, so as well as being immediate, cheaper and more environmentally friendly you avoid the risk of postal issue. You now for next time. For now, all you can do is wait for the debt to be registered.

For this PCN, follows the process outlined here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/


For PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643, there's nothing you can do aside from waiting for the debt to be registered with TEC. Follow the process outlined here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/

By law statutory declarations can be done at either the County Court or the Magistrates' Court, but the County Court will be easier because they do it all the time, the staff at the Magistrates' Court might have no idea how the process works so it's not really worth the hassle of having to deal with them. As an alternative, any high street solicitor will normally do this for around £10 / £15.

Once you've made the statutory declarations let me know, but do not submit them before the debt is registered with TEC or they'll just get rejected.

Hi @cp8759,

Thank you for getting back to me, I really appreciate it.

PN76007402
Why wouldn’t the council get my representations? I posted all 3 together and they responded to the first two. Not to mention that I also submitted my representation for all 3 online as well. The proof of submission can be seen on the original post. I feel like this one is going to be registered but I am curious to see what they say to the request for information. Will I be notified of this being registered with TEC or do I need to check with TEC myself on weekly basis? 

Thank you for the link I will prepare the PE3 just in case now.

PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643
It’s annoying that there's nothing I can do aside from waiting for the debt to be registered with TEC. Given that these happened in 2021 and haven’t been registered yet I don’t think they will do so any time soon. Last two questions on this
1.   Do these things expire or can the council go after this in 20 years from now?
2.   Will I be notified of this being registered with TEC or do I need to check with TEC myself regularly? 

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Re: PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643. Have your received Orders for Recovery for each one? As I understand you all three are still sitting at £195. So I think no OfRs have been issued, so you cannot submit Statutory Declarations (form PE3).

You can get Statutory Declarations witnessed at a Magistrate's Court (or a Solicitor) but you will likely need an appointment and there will be a fee payable for each document. Not sure how much in Stratford, guesstimate £10. That said you can get SD's witnessed at a County Court for free. Some of the Court officials are authorised to witness documents. Any convenient County Court will do. However it's best to phone first and check the opening hours and make an appointment if that's what they want.

Do you want me to create a separate thread for PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643? For the moment leave these three together, until a forum member asks you to separate. As things stand your case(s) and what has and has not happened is too confusing. And some of the members are easily confused.

Re: PN76007402. That's a separate thread already. I'll look into it and post back later.

Re: PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643. I have not received RoF, and this has happened back in 2021.

RE: Statutory Declarations. Got it so it has to be a County Court and not Magistrates' Court.

RE New thread. I only found out about PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643 because of writing to council regarding 2 different PCNs as explained above. This case was created for PN76007402.

I tried my hardest to make this as simple as possible but the whole thing is a bit of a mess.

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Yes, you wait for an LoC. Ignore all debt collection correspondence. It is to be ignored. We don't need to know about it.

An LoC or the actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC s what we need to know about.

Hi @b789,

LoC has arrived now to the London address, not where the vehicle is registered. Interesting because the letters they posted look similar to what the court sends. Is that legal? Another point to note is that they are now only asking for £170 as opposed to £277 as they did in the last letter…

Moorside Legal AC1


Moorside Legal AC2


Am I right in thinking that I just ignore this and we wait for the real LoC from the Court?

13
firstly what a mess, if you'd appealed everything with our help we could have probably got everything cancelled, you know for next time.

So here are your follow-up actions:

1) Stop all communication with the London Borough of Newham. The more you contact them asking for a resolution, the more they mess things up and the more work we have untangling everything. Even if the council tries to help, they are incompetent and will typically make things worse. Where you need to contact them for a specific PCN, I have said so explicitly below.

2) You posted PCNs PN74748188 and PN75748213 here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/newham-code-52m-failing-to-comply-with-a-prohibition-on-certain-types-of-vehicle/ and I told you to follow the statutory process to get them reset, instead you accepted the council's "offer" of a discretionary reset which they would have been obliged to give you anyway. Basically you've been mugged, but as I said you know for next time.

3) For PCN PN76007402, there are no "tribunal letters" and if you do nothing you will end up with an Order for Recovery. That is not the end of the world, but it's far better to find out if there is a Notice of Rejection. So, for this particular PCN, make a subject access request to InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of the Notice of Rejection issued for this PCN to be emailed to you, you will need to provide proof of ID and proof of address as per the lists provided here: https://www.newham.gov.uk/contact-information/requesting-personal-information

If it turns out a Notice of Rejection does exist (which it almost certainly does) then it will have been lost in the post, but that doesn't matter as an appeal can still be filed, I can also represent you at the tribunal, the location in question is reasonably straightforward to win on appeal.

4) PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643: Two things here: firstly make a separate Subject Access Request to InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of all information held in respect of these PCNs (you don't want it mixed up with the request for PN76007402). Secondly do not send any other communication to the council about these PCNs, in particular do not "appeal" or make representations against them, and do not ask them to "reset" them to £65 or to any other amount, at the moment you're just on an information gathering exercise.

For these three PCNs even though you have not received a charge certificate we know one has been issued, therefore this time please listen to me and follow the process described here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/

We can almost certainly get these three PCNs cancelled altogether, so if were to accept a "generous offer" from the council to close these for £65 each, again you would just be getting mugged.

Hi @cp8759,

Please see an update for each point below. 

My action points:
1. Stopped all communication with the London Borough of Newham (LBN).

2. E-mail regarding PCN PN76007402 sent to LBN.


30/12/2024 09:24 LBN responds saying this was passed to the Parking Enforcement team and I should hear back by no later than 30 January 2025.

07/01/2025 Letter from Newham council arrives suggesting to get in touch if I am struggling to afford to pay the outstanding amount.


3. E-mail regarding PCN PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643 sent to LBN.


30/12/2024 09:24 LBN responds saying this was passed to the Parking Enforcement team and I should hear back by no later than 30 January 2025.

03/01/2025 11:12 LBN provides me the PDF of both the Notice and the Charge letters that have never been received...

PN62628875


PN62645400


PN62647643


4. Questions:
a) 08/01/2025 I called the TEC on 0300 123 1059 and asked about all 4 PCNs and none of them have been registered.

The owed amount is still showing as £195 GBP on the council website for every single one of them.

What do I do here now?

b. Do I need this PE3 form for each PCN?
c. Could I just go to Stratford Magistrates' Court and Family Court and ask someone to sign this for me?
d. Should I wait for the LBN to respond to my request first before I do the PE3?
e. Can I do the PN76007402 as well just to save myself going back to the court twice? If so, would I need to tick a different option here?

5. Do you want me to create a separate thread for PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643?

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Hi @cp8759,

HNY.

Please can you kindly take a look at my reply from the 27th when you get a moment?

15
Hi @b789,

HNY!

Got the below letter from the court earlier today:


No new updates on MCOL.

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