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Messages - DontStandForNonsense

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1
The keeper needs to make a representation which makes clear that the representation IS the appeal and, therefore, they must uphold the appeal or reject it and provide a POPLA code.

No need to faff about chewing the technicalities over at this stage.

This will 99% win at POPLA.


I'd suggest the following;

Thank you for your last email.

I have noted the representations which you have made.

Please consider that this email is my formal appeal.

Your note relating to the keeper being liable (via assumption) under contract law is utter nonsense and I am submitting this as evidence to the CMA as your statement clearly demonstrates your intention to mislead a consumer - additionally, your statement could lead a consumer (the keeper) to conduct a financial transaction with you.

This unacceptable behaviour is clearly highlighted in the recent open letter (to the parking industry) from the CMA.

For the purposes of clarity;

I am the vehicle keeper and, in the circumstance, there is no legal or contractual requirement for me to reveal the driver.

As per VCS Ltd v Edward - No adverse conclusion can be drawn from a keeper saying nothing when the law does not require the keeper to say anything.

Your choices are;

1. Save time, money and further resources by cancelling this PCN

OR

2. Reject my appeal, waste more time and money by providing a POPLA code so I can submit a slam-dunk appeal.


I am sorry that I cannot help you further.


Best wishes,

xxxxxx xxxxxxxx


Thanks for this, but before I read your response, I already went ahead and use the reply I posted in earlier. Should I also send this on top or just leave it now?

2
Quote
In addition, should this Parking Charge reach court proceedings, we will put in a request to the judge that
the insurance certificate for the vehicle to reviewed as evidence, to determine who was able to drive the vehicle at the time of the contravention.
Comical that they're still using this line. The insurance certificate tells you almost nothing. My insurance would cover me to drive your car (with your permission).

Do you think my suggest response is suitable?

3
Quote
In addition, should this Parking Charge reach court proceedings, we will put in a request to the judge that
the insurance certificate for the vehicle to reviewed as evidence, to determine who was able to drive the vehicle at the time of the contravention.
Comical that they're still using this line. The insurance certificate tells you almost nothing. My insurance would cover me to drive your car (with your permission).

Yes I thought that too.

4
Is the following an appropriate response:

"Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for your response.

I note and rely upon your express confirmation that:

“This Parking Charge is not POFA compliant.”

I am the registered keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and decline to do so.

In light of your confirmation that you are unable to rely upon Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to establish keeper liability, my appeal stands.

For the avoidance of doubt, should Britannia elect to pursue this matter further despite its express acknowledgement that the Parking Charge is not POFA compliant and in the absence of evidence establishing that I was the driver, I reserve the right to place this correspondence before the court and seek recovery of such costs as the court considers appropriate, including on the basis of unreasonable conduct.

Please either cancel the Parking Charge or issue your final appeal decision together with the appropriate POPLA verification code.

Yours faithfully,"



5
We just received the following email in response to the appeal we submitted to Britannia.

Here it is:

"Re: Parking Charge Number A7499040, Vehicle: HY16VXS
Site: Wokingham - Waitrose
Issue date: 23/07/2026
Thank you for your appeal.

This Parking Charge is not POFA compliant, however, payment can still be sought under the old ‘implied-
contract-with-the-driver’ rules used prior to POFA.

Under Contract Law there is a probability that the Keeper was the Driver if the Keeper does not nominate
anyone else.

Britannia Parking have made no assumptions as to the identity of the driver. We have written to you as
the vehicle’s keeper to inform you of any outstanding contraventions against your vehicle. If you inform us
of the driver’s details, we will pursue them for the Parking Charge. Please be aware that the identity of the
driver does not affect the validity of a Parking Charge.

In addition, should this Parking Charge reach court proceedings, we will put in a request to the judge that
the insurance certificate for the vehicle to reviewed as evidence, to determine who was able to drive the
vehicle at the time of the contravention.

It is our choice as a car park management company, to decide whether to refer to the Keeper Liability
provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012, when we issue a Parking Charge. Not referring to or quoting
POFA 2012 on a Parking Charges does not mean that it was not correctly issued.

It is not a requirement that we must notify you of your Parking Charge within 14 days. This only applies if
we refer to the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 when we issue a Parking Charge.
As we did not, we have 6 months in which we may notify you of the Parking Charge.

We have placed the Parking Charge on hold for 14 days to allow for you to send this information. Please
be aware due to awaiting for additional evidence your appeal response may exceed our 28 day deadline.

Please submit the requested additional evidence or comments through our website using the link below.

You will need your Parking Charge Number and Vehicle Registration:

https://www.britannia-parking.co.uk/en-gb/appeal/

Alternatively, you may email your evidence to parkingcharges@britpark.com, ensuring you include your
Parking Charge Number and Vehicle Registration, or you can send it by post to our registered head office
address.

Please be aware email and postal submissions may delay your appeal being reviewed.

Yours sincerely,
Appeals Department
Britannia Parking"

6
I have a hunch that POPLA will just say it's OK
That would be unusual. Whilst POPLA don't go in for some of the more technical arguments, they do usually judge correctly on non-PoFA cases that are as obvious as an out of time notice, when the argument is presented properly.

Quote
As this is a Waitrose carpark have you tried there to get them to cancel?
This is worth a go. Anecdotally supermarkets are quite good at intervening.

How could this be worded please as I suppose Waitrose would want to know the driver was a customer

7
Looks reasonable; although I would reference the specific paragraph in POFA.  This does assume that your Wife is the Reg Keeper with V5C in her name, and it's not a lease car?  The notice would not be compliant for a lease either, but would need a different appeal!

Odds on they will reject it anyway  :o

The parking firm or POPLA will reject it?

8
Hiya,

Yes, she is the registered keeper. I suppose my thinking that they should do their own research and that we shouldn't make it easy for them (at this stage anyway)?

9

Thank you,

I read the relevant paragraph and it states that they must serve within 14 days. Here is the appeal:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I write as the registered keeper of the above vehicle to appeal the Parking Charge Notice.

This Notice to Keeper does not comply with the mandatory requirements of Paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As a consequence, you are unable to transfer liability for the alleged parking charge from the driver to the registered keeper.

I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver and I decline to do so.

In the circumstances, there is no lawful basis upon which to pursue me as the registered keeper, and I require that this Parking Charge Notice be cancelled.

Should you reject this appeal, please provide a full explanation of the legal basis upon which you contend I am liable as the registered keeper despite your failure to comply with the requirements of Paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, together with the verification code required to refer the matter to the appropriate independent appeals service.

I look forward to your confirmation that this Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

10
The NTK is not atempting to use https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4 to transfer liabiliity from the unknown driver to the registered keeper, nor can it because it is issued too late to comply with one of the legislation’s requirements (it needed to be issued by 9 July for this), so the registered keeper should appeal saying that the driver will not be identified and that the registered keeper is not liable because Britannia is unable to use PoFA 2012 to transfer liability.

If the appeal is rejected, after “careful consideration”, meaning the big red “no” button, then a follow-up appeal to POPLA will be required which will more likely be upheld.

See https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/overstay-parkingeye-private-parking-charge-notice-asda-ashford-kent/msg126985/#new for example, which will require minor modification.

Thanks for this.

What is considered the issue date?

Date of contravention:   29/06/26
Date of notice:      23/07/26
Date received in post:   05/08/26

And is there somewhere this rule is written that I can copy in?

11
My partner received in the post yesterday a NTK (NTK_LINK) for 'Parking longer than the permitted time'

I'll be asking her shortly if she can recall any helpful information from the driver, but on the face of it, does it look like a notice she can avoid paying? The driver certainly would have been a customer at one of the associated stores.

Thank you in advance.


12
Okay,

Now I think it is ready?

DEFENCE
1.

The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety.

2.

It is admitted only that the Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle referred to in the Particulars of Claim. Save for that admission, every allegation is denied.

3.

The Particulars of Claim state only:

"Driver left site designated for customer parking only."

The Defendant is unable to determine from that wording the factual or legal basis of the claim.

The Particulars do not explain:

the contractual term allegedly breached;
the meaning or geographical extent of the alleged "site";
the conduct said to constitute the alleged breach;
whether the allegation concerns the driver, passengers or both;
how the alleged breach was observed; or
the basis upon which the Claimant contends liability arises.

The Defendant should not be required to speculate as to the case to be met.

Given the limited and ambiguous wording of the Particulars of Claim, this Defence is necessarily confined to the matters that can reasonably be understood from the Claimant's pleading. The Defendant reserves the right to address any further or more particularised case advanced by the Claimant during the course of these proceedings.

4.

Without prejudice to the Defendant's position that the Particulars of Claim fail properly to identify the case to be met, if the Claimant's case is that the driver left the retail park in breach of the parking terms, that allegation is expressly denied.

The Defendant's case is that the driver remained within the retail park as a genuine customer of Decathlon before returning directly to the vehicle and leaving the site. Accordingly, no contractual breach occurred.

5.

The Defendant has consistently denied that the alleged breach occurred from the earliest opportunity.

The Defendant's position is supported by contemporaneous evidence created during the visit, which will be relied upon at the witness statement stage.

6.

The photographs disclosed by the Claimant identify only the presence of the parked vehicle. They do not, on their face, evidence the alleged contractual breach pleaded in the Particulars of Claim.

7.

If the Claimant maintains that the alleged contractual breach occurred, it is required to prove:

(a) that the alleged conduct occurred;

(b) that the alleged conduct amounted to a breach of the contractual terms relied upon;

(c) that the operative accurately observed the alleged conduct;

(d) that any observations relied upon were recorded contemporaneously;

(e) that the contractual terms relied upon, including any alleged prohibition upon leaving the site, were clearly, prominently and unambiguously communicated to motorists; and

(f) that the Claimant possessed the necessary authority from the landowner both to enter contracts with motorists and to pursue this claim.

8.

Further, insofar as the Claimant seeks to establish keeper liability pursuant to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, such liability is denied.

The Defendant does not admit that the statutory requirements necessary to establish keeper liability have been satisfied and puts the Claimant to strict proof that the conditions prescribed by Schedule 4 have been met.

The Defendant reserves the right to amplify this issue should the Claimant seek to rely upon Schedule 4 or should further relevant information become available during the course of proceedings.

9.

The Defendant disputes the additional sums claimed over and above the original parking charge and requires the Claimant to prove the contractual and legal basis upon which those additional sums are said to be recoverable.

10.

For the reasons set out above, the Court is respectfully invited to dismiss the claim.

13
The claim is founded upon a single factual allegation, namely that the driver left the retail park in breach of the contractual terms relied upon by the Claimant.

That allegation is expressly denied.

The Defendant's case is that the driver remained within the retail park as a genuine customer of Decathlon before returning directly to the vehicle and leaving the site. Accordingly, no contractual breach occurred.



I've highlighted what I think is a mistake: you've tried to interpret their grounds.

I suggest you state exactly what's in the PoC, which is:
Driver left site designated for customer parking only.

Is a non sequitur (A non sequitur is a statement, remark, or conclusion that does not logically or naturally follow from what came before it).

Which is where you should start IMO.

Without further explanation, IMO (and forgetting your admissions on this forum) it is not possible to compile a defence because the roles of 'customer' and 'driver' are not explained. Is their claim that the driver was not a customer and left the site and there was no 'customer', or that the driver was the only customer (in the vehicle) and left the site? So is the breach that 'customers' must remain on the site or that 'drivers' must, but 'customers' are not bound by any restriction. Is the claimant saying that occupants of the car are bound by the same contractual terms which bind the driver and/or that the driver is responsible for occupants' whereabouts?

I haven't the foggiest idea!

As regards 'non compliance', IMO previous posts have overstated the requirement. Para. 9 of Sch. 4, which is the relevant part, uses these terms regarding what a notice must contain:

State;
Warn;
Inform;
Specify.

Previous posts have not differentiated between their legal meanings and IMO have sought to convey that para. 9 must be included, implicitly verbatim, and that its provisions must appear once only in a notice and in the same form as in Sch. 4.

IMO, courts have discretion regarding determining compliance i.e. is the meaning conveyed consistent with the purpose of para. 9, not just whether every word appears.

Thank you.

How about this:

DEFENCE
1.

The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety.

2.

It is admitted only that the Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle referred to in the Particulars of Claim. Save for that admission, every allegation is denied.

3.

The Particulars of Claim state only:

"Driver left site designated for customer parking only."

The Defendant is unable to determine from that wording the factual or legal basis of the allegation.

The Particulars do not explain:

the contractual term allegedly breached;
the meaning or geographical extent of the alleged "site";
the conduct said to constitute the alleged breach;
whether the allegation concerns the driver, passengers, or both;
how the alleged breach was observed; or
the basis upon which the Claimant contends liability arises.

The Defendant should not be required to speculate as to the case to be met.

4.

To the extent that the Claimant alleges that the driver left the retail park in breach of the parking terms, that allegation is expressly denied.

The Defendant's case is that the driver remained within the retail park as a genuine customer of Decathlon before returning directly to the vehicle and leaving the site. Accordingly, no contractual breach occurred.

5.

The Defendant has consistently denied that the alleged breach occurred from the earliest opportunity.

The Defendant's position is supported by contemporaneous evidence created during the visit, which will be relied upon at the witness statement stage.

6.

The photographs disclosed by the Claimant identify only the presence of the parked vehicle. They do not, on their face, evidence the alleged contractual breach pleaded in the Particulars of Claim.

7.

If the Claimant maintains that the alleged contractual breach occurred, it is required to prove:

(a) that the alleged conduct occurred;

(b) that the alleged conduct amounted to a breach of the contractual terms relied upon;

(c) that the operative accurately observed the alleged conduct;

(d) that any observations relied upon were recorded contemporaneously;

(e) that the contractual terms relied upon, including any alleged prohibition upon leaving the site, were clearly, prominently and unambiguously communicated to motorists; and

(f) that the Claimant possessed the necessary authority from the landowner both to enter contracts with motorists and to pursue this claim.

8.

Further, insofar as the Claimant seeks to establish keeper liability pursuant to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, such liability is denied.

The Defendant does not admit that the mandatory statutory conditions required to invoke keeper liability have been satisfied and puts the Claimant to strict proof of compliance with the statutory requirements.

The Defendant reserves the right to amplify this issue should the Claimant seek to rely upon Schedule 4 or should further relevant information become available during the course of proceedings.

9.

The Defendant disputes the additional sums claimed over and above the original parking charge and requires the Claimant to prove the contractual and legal basis upon which those additional sums are said to be recoverable.

10.

For the reasons set out above, the Court is respectfully invited to dismiss the claim.

14
Hi,

Please let me know what you all think?



DEFENCE
1.

The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety.

2.

It is admitted only that the Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle referred to in the Particulars of Claim. Save for that admission, every allegation is denied.

3.

The claim is founded upon a single factual allegation, namely that the driver left the retail park in breach of the contractual terms relied upon by the Claimant.

That allegation is expressly denied.

The Defendant's case is that the driver remained within the retail park as a genuine customer of Decathlon before returning directly to the vehicle and leaving the site. Accordingly, no contractual breach occurred.

4.

The Defendant has consistently denied that the alleged breach occurred from the earliest opportunity.

The Defendant's position is supported by contemporaneous evidence created during the visit, which will be relied upon at the witness statement stage.

5.

The Particulars of Claim fail to set out the material facts relied upon with sufficient particularity to enable the Defendant fully to understand the case to be met.

In particular, the Particulars fail to identify:

the contractual term allegedly breached;
the geographical extent of the alleged "site";
where the driver is alleged to have gone;
how the alleged breach was observed; and
the factual basis upon which liability is asserted.

The burden rests upon the Claimant to prove each element of its claim.

6.

The photographs disclosed by the Claimant identify only the presence of the parked vehicle. They do not, on their face, evidence the alleged contractual breach upon which the claim is founded.

7.

If the Claimant maintains that the alleged contractual breach occurred, it is required to prove:

(a) that the alleged conduct occurred;

(b) that the alleged conduct amounted to a breach of the contractual terms relied upon;

(c) that the operative accurately observed the alleged conduct;

(d) that any observations relied upon were recorded contemporaneously;

(e) that the contractual terms relied upon, including any alleged prohibition upon leaving the site, were clearly, prominently and unambiguously communicated to motorists; and

(f) that the Claimant possessed the necessary authority from the landowner both to enter contracts with motorists and to pursue this claim.

8.

Further, insofar as the Claimant seeks to establish keeper liability pursuant to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, such liability is denied.

The Defendant does not admit that the mandatory statutory conditions required to invoke keeper liability have been satisfied and puts the Claimant to strict proof of full compliance.

The Defendant reserves the right to expand upon this issue should the Claimant seek to rely upon Schedule 4 or should further relevant information become available during the course of proceedings.

9.

The Defendant disputes the additional sums claimed over and above the original parking charge and requires the Claimant to prove the contractual and legal basis upon which those additional sums are said to be recoverable.

10.

For the reasons set out above, the Court is respectfully invited to dismiss the claim.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Signed: ___________________________

Name: ____________________________

Date: _____________________________

15
@b789 hasn't been active on these forums for many months now, and didn't bother to explain the reasons why your notice didn't comply with PoFA 2012.
So either you can look for yourself (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4) or one of the other volunteers here may be able to help you.

I can add, although it doesn't help you here, that I believe that whenever I advise non-compliance with PoFA 2012 on this forum I also quote the relevant part of the legislation and why the notice doesn't comply.

Thank you. I'll try and understand how, if at all, the NTK didn't comply AND check the case that was referenced as an example. Not going to lie, legallesse is often utter gibberish to me, but ill try. I hope that in the mean time, a volunteer might understand it all better. Otherwise I think the only approach will be to argue that no evidence was provided (that is quite a straight forward thing for me to understand and argue argue) There is no evidence because non exists.

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