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Messages - eyalmms

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1
Quote
The operator’s version simply says "29 days," which is not the same thing and is legally incorrect.
It might be worth adding at least a sentence in here to set out why it is vague - it doesn't state when the 29 days begins, unlike PoFA's wording, which states exactly when the relevant period begins.

Some POPLA adjudicators take the view that if the same date is communicated but with different wording, that's fine (whether that should be the case is a different matter, but it is what it is) - here, that clearly isn't the case, without an obvious date from when the "29 days" they refer to should begin, it's impossible to know what time period they're referring to.

Have amended and sent off. Can't tell you how grateful I am for the input. Will be back with an answer in 6-8 weeks I suppose...

2
Continue to only appeal as the Registered Keeper (RK). They have no idea who the driver is and you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company.

If we put it together, PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a) states:

Quote
9 (1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2) The notice must

(a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

So, is there anything in the NtK you received that "specifies" the "period of parking"? You tell me.

Unless ALL the requirements of PoFA are fully complied with, then they cannot hold the Keeper liable. So, don't identify the driver.

Are they wrong about the clear implication of the period? Am I being pedantic, or are they taking liberties?

3
Hi, sorry to chase. Just seems a shame to end up being rejected just because I haven't replied to their response
Or do they make a good arguement that should spur me to back down?

4
Hi all
Have just been sent this through Popla. Along with proof that manage the land etc. Have been given 7 days to respond - do I reply?
Thanks again
E

5
Dear Assessor,

The contract that we are seeking payment on has arisen from a breach of the notified terms and conditions of parking stated on the signs that the landowner has requested us to erect and permitted to remain erected at this location. The evidence demonstrates that the signage, including the entrance signs, is clearly located to make motorists aware of the terms and conditions and the potential consequences of non-adherence to the terms have been made fully available "PRIVATE ROAD, MONITORED PARKING IN OPERATION SATURDAY 11am – 12pm, 1pm-2pm, 3:30-4:30pm and 7-8pm.
UNAUTHORISED PARKING BY MEANS OF NOT SHOWING A CLEARLY DISPLAYED VALID PERMIT IN THE WINDSCREEN WILL RESULT IN A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE OF £100 BEING ISSUED".
The charge was issued because the appellant's vehicle was parked without a valid permit on Saturday between 1pm and 2pm, which directly contravened the terms and conditions of parking.
The evidence demonstrates that the entrance sign makes it clear that motorists enter private land managed by our company on behalf of the landowner. It is also clear in its communication that terms and conditions apply. The terms were adequately brought to the driver's attention. The signage stands out from the surroundings of the site. The signage is displayed as black text on a white background, making it prominent to all motorists when they park. The sum payable for unauthorised parking is printed in larger bold letters, which is more than visible when reviewing the signage. The signage at the location in question is BPA compliant and would have been visible when the driver arrived on site. Whilst we note the appellant has raised lighting within their grounds of appeal, the signage on site is made of retro-reflective material, ensuring visibility if illuminated by vehicle headlights. However, the contravention took place during daylight hours, and therefore, the driver had sufficient lighting to review the terms and conditions of parking. It was then the driver's responsibility to ensure they sought out and adhered to the advertised terms. By instead choosing to ignore the terms and remain without a valid on display, the driver became liable for a parking charge.
It is important to note that the operator does not have to issue a notice directly to the driver of the vehicle, as it can hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. For a Notice to Keeper to be compliant with PoFA 2012, as detailed in section 9(2)(f) “warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given— (i) the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and (ii) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid.” The Notice to Keeper correctly conveys this information. It states the keeper has ‘If after 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details’, which is the equivalent of ‘28 days beginning the day after the that on which the notice is given’. This is compliant with PoFA Act 2012 requirements, and therefore, the parking charge is BPA and POFA 2012 compliant. The evidence does not indicate that the keeper provided us with the relevant information to transfer liability to the driver. By failing to provide the driver's details, the appellant has assumed liability for this PCN.
The appellant also says that the PCN does not comply with paragraph 9(2) (a) of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, which states: “Specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.” The PCN states the location, the date and time of the contravention and also contains images of the vehicle parked at the site, which is sufficient to identify the period of parking to which the notice relates. The PCN is therefore PoFA compliant.
Ultimately, it is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure they adhere to the site's terms in order to avoid the possibility of a PCN being issued."

6
When submitting the challenge, do I include photos of the signage in the pdf, or just make my points about the signs not complying and let them look for themselves?

7
"Posting"??? I hope you mean sending through the POPLA website. You can just save it as a PDF and upload it. Make sure you don't select anything that gives away the drivers identity. The appellant is the Keeper or "other" only.

To be honest I had presumed that I submit through a website but I'll work out out! Will keep the driver's identity of it, thanks
E

8
Hey. Am posting this tomorrow so it's not hanging over me on Christmas. Wish me luck!..
E

9
Hey
Any further input to the appeal? Would like to send it so and just have one less thing hanging over me
Thanks all
E

10
Apologies. Messaged again as I thought I'd sent this draft on Saturday. But clearly not!

11
Really appreciate the ongoing feedback

Is this better?

**Dear Mr. Assessor,** 
**PCN: [Your Reference Number]**

The issue in dispute here is whether the creditor has the right to enforce against the driver the requirement to pay the parking charge and, if so, whether they can claim this from the keeper of the vehicle.

I have set out my appeal accordingly:

**Does the creditor have the right to enforce against the driver the requirement to pay the parking charge?**

Before going into the detail of the events on the site and my appeal, the assessor is obliged to satisfy themselves that the creditor has the necessary authority to enter into contracts and impose parking charges on behalf of the landowner. This would necessitate the creditor providing evidence to this effect, and I reserve the right to present an argument based upon this once a copy has been provided to me.

Subject to the creditor having this authority, I dispute that this could give rise to a relevant obligation on the driver's part in this case because the signs in situ fail to comply with the Code of Practice as follows:

1. **Inadequate Signage:** 
   The parking signage does not comply with the regulations required for enforceable private parking contracts. The signage fails to clearly display the terms and conditions, including the potential £100 Parking Charge Notice, in a manner that meets the standards of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice.

   - **Lack of Adequate Illumination:** 
     The sign is mounted on a pole with no provision for adequate lighting. It is difficult to read in low-light conditions, rendering it impossible for motorists to see and understand the terms at night. This does not comply with the requirement that parking terms must be clearly visible and legible under all conditions, including at night or in poor weather.

   - **Insufficient Notice of Key Terms:** 
     The terms and conditions are written in small, dense text. Key information such as the penalty amount and conditions for enforcement is not prominent or clearly displayed.

   - **Ambiguous Time Restrictions:** 
     The sign lists a complex schedule of restricted parking hours for each day. This schedule is excessively convoluted, making it unreasonable to expect drivers to understand and comply within the short time they have to park and assess the situation.

**Does the creditor have the right to recover unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle?**

This would require the creditor to comply with the provisions of paragraphs 5, 6, 9, 11, and 12 (as the case may be) of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. However, the creditor has failed to comply with paragraph 9, and therefore paragraph 6, for the following reasons:

2. **Lack of Specified Period of Parking:** 
   According to Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA, for the NTK to be valid, it must specify "the period of parking to which the notice relates." The NTK issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd only mentions a single point in time, rather than a specific period during which the vehicle was parked. This omission is a clear failure to comply with the PoFA requirements, rendering the NTK invalid. As such, the parking company does not have the legal right to claim unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper.

3. **Lack of Clear Authority:** 
   The sign lacks clear evidence of Private Parking Solutions' authority to manage parking on this land. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice requires parking operators to display evidence of their contractual right to issue parking charges on the site. This is absent from the sign.

Given these points, I respectfully request that POPLA upholds my appeal and instructs Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully, 

12
The time and date of the breach? (you've obscured this).
The back of the PCN pl.

There's no BPA Code of Practice as such, there's the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice if the event took place on or after 1 Oct.

So I suggest you re-read your draft and remove references to an out of date CoP, I also suggest you remove reference to TSRGD which has nothing whatsoever to do with contracts for parking on private land(it applies to traffic authorities), I also suggest you aggregate and don't repeat points under PoFA and CoP breaches, and remove the double negative here:

I contest that the Notice to Keeper (NTK) issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd does not specify the "period of parking" as required under Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA.



I am writing to appeal a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued to my vehicle on ********* by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question and have not disclosed the identity of the driver.

The basis of my appeal is the failure of the parking company to comply with the requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 and the inadequacy of the parking signage. Specifically, I contest that the Notice to Keeper (NTK) issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd fails to specify the "period of parking" as required under Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA.

Key points of my appeal are as follows:

1. Lack of Specified Period of Parking:
   According to Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA, for the NTK to be valid, it must specify "the period of parking to which the notice relates." The NTK issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd only mentions a single point in time, rather than a specific period during which the vehicle was parked. This omission is a clear failure to comply with the PoFA requirements, rendering the NTK invalid. As such, the parking company does not have the legal right to claim unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper.

2. Inadequate Signage:
   The parking signage does not comply with the regulations required for enforceable private parking contracts. The signage fails to clearly display the terms and conditions, including the potential £100 Parking Charge Notice, in a manner that meets the standards of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice.

   Lack of Adequate Illumination:
     The sign is mounted on a pole with no provision for adequate lighting. It is difficult to read in low-light conditions, rendering it impossible for motorists to see and understand the terms at night. This does not comply with the requirement that parking terms must be clearly visible and legible under all conditions, including at night or in poor weather.

   - **Insufficient Notice of Key Terms:** 
     The terms and conditions are written in small, dense text. Key information such as the penalty amount and conditions for enforcement is not prominent or clearly displayed.

   Ambiguous Time Restrictions:
     The sign lists a complex schedule of restricted parking hours for each day. This schedule is excessively convoluted, making it unreasonable to expect drivers to understand and comply within the short time they have to park and assess the situation.

3. Lack of Clear Authority:
   The sign lacks clear evidence of Private Parking Solutions' authority to manage parking on this land. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice requires parking operators to display evidence of their contractual right to issue parking charges on the site. This is absent from the sign.

Given these points, I respectfully request that POPLA upholds my appeal and instructs Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully

13
The time and date of the breach? (you've obscured this).
The back of the PCN pl.

[/i]

Noted - will redraft

I obscured the date and time deliberately (always have done since pepipoo). Will obviously add it back in or was there something specific about it? Happened October 8th so will read the private parking sector single code of conduct. Thanks

14
I am writing to appeal a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued to my vehicle on ------ by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question and have not disclosed the identity of the driver.

The basis of my appeal is the failure of the parking company to comply with the requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 and on the grounds that the parking signage does not comply with the regulations required for enforceable private parking contracts. Specifically, I contest that the Notice to Keeper (NTK) issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd does not specify the "period of parking" as required under Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA.

While the NTK mentions the time of the alleged parking contravention, it fails to state the actual "period of parking" during which the vehicle was purportedly parked. The PoFA clearly differentiates between the time of issue and the period of parking, and the NTK must include the latter to meet the statutory requirements. Similarly, the deficiencies in the signage mean that no contract was formed between the driver and Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd.

**Key points of my appeal are as follows:**

1. **Lack of Specified Period of Parking:** 
   According to Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA, for the NTK to be valid, it must specify "the period of parking to which the notice relates." The NTK issued by [parking company's name] only mentions a single point in time, rather than a specific period during which the vehicle was parked. This omission is a clear failure to comply with the PoFA requirements, rendering the NTK invalid.

2. **Non-Compliance with PoFA:** 
   The failure to specify the "period of parking" invalidates the NTK under the PoFA 2012. As such, the parking company does not have the legal right to claim unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper.

3. **Requirement for Strict Adherence:** 
   As the registered keeper, I am entitled to expect that the parking company adheres strictly to all statutory requirements when issuing a NTK. Non-compliance with these requirements invalidates any claim against me.

4. Lack of Adequate Illumination
The sign is mounted on a pole with no provision for adequate lighting. The photograph clearly shows that the sign is difficult to read in low-light conditions, rendering it impossible for motorists to see and understand the terms at night. This does not comply with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, Section 19.3, which requires that parking terms must be clearly visible and legible under all conditions, including at night or in poor weather.

5. Insufficient Notice of Key Terms
The sign fails to meet the standards of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and BPA Code of Practice. The terms and conditions, including the potential £100 Parking Charge Notice, are written in small, dense text. Key information such as the penalty amount and conditions for enforcement is not prominent or clearly displayed.

The ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 case stressed the importance of clear and prominent signage for creating a binding parking contract. Here, the terms are obscured due to poor design and positioning, undermining their enforceability.

6. Ambiguous Time Restrictions
The sign lists a complex schedule of restricted parking hours for each day. This schedule is excessively convoluted, making it unreasonable to expect drivers to understand and comply within the short time they have to park and assess the situation. As per the BPA Code of Practice (Section 19.4), terms must be clear and concise. This sign clearly fails this standard.

7. Non-Compliance with Regulatory Design Standards
The sign does not adhere to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD) standards, which apply to private parking signage. While TSRGD is not legally binding on private operators, compliance is often cited as a benchmark for clarity and enforceability.

8. Lack of Clear Authority
The sign lacks clear evidence of Private Parking Solutions' authority to manage parking on this land. The BPA Code of Practice, Section 7, requires parking operators to display evidence of their contractual right to issue parking charges on the site. This is absent from the sign.

Given these points, I respectfully request that POPLA upholds my appeal and instructs Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully,

15
We originally discussed not complying with their request for the details of the driver. Should I continue that or do I now tell them who is responsible for the charge?

The charge stated the time - when 9(2a) states "period" is there an obligation to write a start and end time?

Thanks
E

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