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Messages - MJ007

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1
Please let me know if this is the right approach
Cummulative, from two senior Solicitors

- the hearing on the 21st is because the court has decided your case is not suitable for the Single Justice Procedure (I’m not sure why they have done this).

On the 21st we have the option to plead guilty or not guilty (without attending - even though the summons says you should attend).

On the 21st the case will either be listed for trial or it will be adjourned for a case management hearing. We would deal with the case management hearing via letter.

 Between the 22st and the trial date I would be working to persuade the prosecution to drop the case on public interest grounds.

If we haven’t managed to get them to drop the case by the trial date then we would attend the trial and argue that the offence is not made out.

——
This isn’t how these cases work. You have not yet entered a guilty plea because the court has not accepted your guilty plea.

The next hearing would be dealt with via letter confirming a not guilty plea (neither you nor I would attend)

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Thanks, Andy

3
So could I change my plea? Yes or non
A senior Solicitor thinks I can.
A layman like me thinks, why not? Bcos a magistrate has rejected the guilty plea and my
mitigation statement as ‘ inappropriate to be tried under SJP’
So all bets are  off? We start anew, facing a proper trial with a three member magistrate bench?

Either way, bull*cks to them all, a person like me
should never trust the establishment.Easy for you guys to disagree and ridicule me as an alcoholic  or playing the victim card. I'm not offended in the least.
Will fork out 3 k and fight this in court

At least it would answer the million dollar question on why? Why was it inappropriate to try this case under the SJP

D

4
I have an option to plead not guilty and argue that the offence is not made out

Who has told you that?
A Solicitor

5
Quote
...the mitigation letter was a long while ago. From memory it wasn't much,...
Not much help then.

--MJ So my mitigation letter wasn't something out of the blue? Still they didn't consider it


What about the letter they sent to you, asking you to attend court? What did that say

MJ-  It says

        Summmons on Referral to Court
A magistrate has decided that your case should be referred to a full court hearing.
Location and date/time given

REASON: Case inappropriate from the SJP 


Attendance:  arrive 30 before

Warning:

Cases : Charge initiated  by the Chief Constable- Driving without due care and attention.  Section 3 of RTA and Schedule 2 of RTOA  1988
The sentence for this offence can be endorsed on your driving record

     Referral to Full Court Hearing
Your case was considered by the Court under the SJP. However, owing to the reasons given ( didn't find any F reason tbh) your case has now been referred to a hearing before a full magistrates'' court. For more information of the reason, see below

Advise and help

(overall no actual reason given why it's not suitable for the SJP. Just says
1) Case unsuitable for SJP
 2) As unsuitable, now referred to  a full Court hearing
Sounds like pure BS to me
---------------------------------


 I'd suggest you've been at the bottle.
No Sir, stopped drinking since June 2022.
----------------------------------

My understanding is or take home point is, irrespective of the reason why and how,
I have now to face a full court hearing.
My previous guilty plea doesn't hold water, for the simple reason that the court itself has not accepted my guilty plea
When I do attend court, the case would either be listed for trial or it would be adjourned for a case management hearing
I have an option to plead not guilty and argue that the offence is not made out


D

6
The issue here is we do not know why you have been asked to attend court.

It could be for sentencing as they may be considering disqualification (the court will no disqualify you in your absence without first giving you an opportunity to attend). It could be because your guilty plea was not accepted because your mitigation indicated you were advancing a possible defence to the charge. It could be for something else. The reason you have been asked to court is important. We don't know what it is.

This is of concern:

Quote
In the SJp I pleaded that they be lenient with me and explained the driving conditions

Quote
I pleaded guilty to the SJP, precisely to avoid wasting  time.

You should not plead guilty for the sake of expediency. If you believe you are not guilty (and you've given an indication within this thread that you believe you are) you should plead not guilty. So, one last time then I'm out: forget the rapists and murderers; what did you say (exactly, word for word) in your mitigation and how did the court respond (exactly, preferably post up their letter)?

If you consult a solicitor they will want to know these things so if you want advice on here the same applies.

Hi NJ

Thanks for the response, the mitigation letter was a long while ago. From memory it wasn't much, very polite pleaded with  humility and gave the incident details and time line

Something like  after driving for 12 years without any incidents was stopped on the motorway. Explained circumstances, was raining heavily, dark and midnight . I apologised and was given a fixed penalty notice.
Then gave the sequence of events, leading to it being referred to the SJP ( missed post and failed to include driving license details, despite paying the fine)
Explained my work as a agency temp and the only earning member of the family. Plus the job I do

Last para was that I plead guilty and and am willing to accept whatever punishment.  Given that the fixed term penalty was missed because of unfortunate events, I would be grateful if the same conditions and fines were maintained. I shall leave that to your discretion and hope for the best.

-------
Don't know if this is relevant but around the same time, in a separate letter I wrote to the Police, asking for details of the case under the subject access route. Also compared this stop and eagerness, to my car being vandalised/broken on two occasions, where the police gave me a reference number and closed the case. So asked him if traffic offences are the Police ATM or cash cow.
Don't know if these guys had a 'little chat' and decided to teach me a lesson. They should know each other, meet at golf courses or pubs or in the courts, don't they??
As all the Solicitors who I have sought the 'initial free advise' are amazed, that this  ended up in court, despite a guilty plea

Ps

Groan , does careless driving conviction actually show up on an enhanced DBS check . There goes my weekend

7
Sorry, been a long day, just got back home or to my room

My case

Basically drove back from a similar late night shift, it was winter, dark and raining. So remained in left lane only, averaging around 40--45 I think
Followed by cops who pulled me over and gave me an earful on how lorries were put in peril because of my low speed. Then got this fixed penalty or course option, paid up but forgot to send the license
The sent a reminder, again misplaced and then the SJP

In the SJp I pleaded that they be lenient with me and explained the driving conditions

Then got this court summons

Nothing exciting

D

8
So far as I understand matters, your case began to be tried under the single justice procedure. For some reason, the court decided that was no longer appropriate and has adjourned your case. If that is correct, then you do not need to (or get to) enter your plea again. You have pleaded guilty, that plea has (presumably) been accepted but your case is now adjourned.

You can apply to vacate your guilty plea but there are quite strict criteria around doing so. Dropping out of the SJP isn’t a reason.

So basically I have been called to court to do exactly what ? 
Plead guilty, as before
Same evidence ,as before? The traffic cell, who deal with cases deemed it was worth a course or 3 points/ 100 quid
What else do they want from me?

More dough? extract as much as possible? 

yep, easy money to be made, while rapists and murderers walk free, as they are a loss making venture

Netflix Rebel Ridge comes to mind

9
I pleaded guilty to the SJP, precisely to avoid wasting  time. So if whoever it was, found that inappropriate, then isn't this a whole new ball game?

Most importantly, why is the term used to 'change my plea' . Isn't this starting with a new slate?

If not, why exactly have I been summoned to court? To enter a guilty plea which has been rejected by the SJP? Or to increase the quantum of fines? Doesn't make sense?

If I do make a 'not guilty' plea do I have to inform the court in advance? There is nothing in the letter about that. It just states to be present at so and so time and seek legal assistance, if required in advance

Brief GIST of the letter

A magistrate has decided that your case be referred to a full court hearing

Reason: Case inappropriate for the SJP
Then the charges

Referral to full court hearing
Reason, as above
advise and help-seek with some website link
if you need general help, contact the court office, with a disclaimer


10
So, what if I turn up in court and please no guilty

Charge- Was driving slowly 40-45 mph on the M69

Reason being: Request the prosecution to drop the case, as it's not in the public interest   

How will the judge react?

Yes, agree with me and throw the case out ( and I buy a winning lotto)
or
Laughs at me and sentences me to a hefty  fine or points or ban?
or
Says fine, let's have a date in the future, to argue why it's not in public interest?


Can I fight the case myself in court? Learn some law , I got an excellent memory and topped my batch of 92
D

11


Not Leamington based but with an excellent reputation for no-nonsense help and sensible prices is Bobby Bell of BB law. https://www.bb-law.co.uk/
[/quote]


It is unusual for a driver to be prosecuted on the basis they were driving too slowly.  I can understand why the police officer thought you had committed an offence of careless driving but it MIGHT be possible to persuade the prosecution to drop the case on the basis it is not in the public interest to continue with the prosecution.
 
My fee to deal with the case would be £2595, which assumes a maximum of 1 x court attendance.

---Ouch ..if 2595 is sensible,  then what do the others charge???

12
FWIW, you won’t have a criminal record, as it’s not a recordable offence. You will have been convicted of a crime though (which for many practical purposes is no different to accepting a fixed penalty).

Thanks, South Paw

and everyone else who took the time out to advise me, much appreciated

My primary concern is about a criminal record, my employer will certainly raise it, if it shows up on an enhanced DBS check.
If it doesn't show up do I still have to declare it?

D

13
Thanks everyone, specially Rookie and Buses and senior

I was stopped for driving at 45 mph on the M69. Hoped would go away if I pleaded guilty and  took the 100 quid and 3 point fine. Due to a comedy of errors, mostly on my part, the license details never got across. Pleaded guilty with a mitigation statement but  told that it's not suitable for an SJP

So fine, can't I now plead not guilty and fight it out in court? Is money the only reason we have to base our decisions on? What  will I lose, 1-3 grand and may be a ban? I just cant stand the idea of having a criminal record, however soft or mild or which may not show up

There's no law against driving slowly

Darren

14
Well it would help if you explained exactly what you are trying to achieve first.
1/ mitigation to reduce the sentence based on your guilty plea - in which case doing yourself is usually best as you a professional is unlikely to save what they cost you
2/ reverse your guilty plea and defend the allegation, in which case what defence do you think you have?
3/ something else

Do you even know (as opposed to thinking you know) why you want help?

Not Leamington based but with an excellent reputation for no-nonsense help and sensible prices is Bobby Bell of BB law. https://www.bb-law.co.uk/



Thanks a ton, Rookie

15
Thanks, to all those who replied

Is there any Solicitor in this area? Leamington Spa, Coventry etc

Please do lemme know

D

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