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Messages - b789

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1
You haven't received a single "fine" so please stop calling them that. Also, why on earth do you think you have to pay them?

They are simply speculative invoices from an unregulated private parking company for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. Do you just pay any old invoice you receive, especially from a firm of ex-clampers?

Forget the "mugs discount". That is just to get the ow-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

Do not try and rush this. We will provide all the advice you need.  To start, what exactly does your lease/tenancy agreement say about parking? What it doesn't say about parking is equally important.

When you can show us the wording on the lease, then we can advise further.

In the meantime just provide a list of all the PCNs received so far. We don't need to know about any reminders. Just the originals. All we need is a list like this for example:

PCN #1: Date of contravention 06/03/2025 01:59. Date issued: 07/03/2025.
PCN #2: Date of contravention XX/XX/2025 XX:XX. Date issued: XX/XX/2025.

And so on.

2
Private parking tickets / Re: DCBL Iceland Stores
« on: Yesterday at 05:51:18 pm »

They wont appoint bailiffs or the likes will they. ?

Quote
Why no bailiff can knock on your door

1. County Court Judgment (CCJ):

• A bailiff (enforcement agent) can only get involved after a creditor has obtained a CCJ against you in a county court.
• If the CCJ is under £600, the creditor cannot transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO). Instead, enforcement would remain under the county court's jurisdiction.

2. Threshold for High Court Enforcement:

• If a CCJ is over £600 (including fees and interest), the creditor can transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by an HCEO. This is a common method because HCEOs tend to be more effective at recovering money.

3. Cost-Benefit Analysis for Creditors:

• For CCJs under £600, creditors may find it uneconomical to pursue enforcement through county court bailiffs, as they are generally slower and less effective than HCEOs.
• As a result, creditors may opt not to escalate enforcement for small amounts.

4. Private Parking Charges and Bailiffs:

• In the context of private parking charges, no bailiff action can occur unless the parking operator has gone to court, won a case, obtained a CCJ, and you fail to pay the judgment within the stipulated time (usually 30 days).

So, no bailiff will come to your door for a debt under £600 unless the creditor deems it worth pursuing through county court enforcement. However, even if the debt is over £600, bailiff involvement only happens after a CCJ is issued, and enforcement is transferred to the High Court.

Also...

Nothing we advise on here will make anyone get a CCJ.

Quote
A County Court Judgment (CCJ) does not just happen—it follows a clear legal process. If someone gets a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private parking company, here's what happens step by step:

1. Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued

• The parking company sends a letter (Notice to Keeper) demanding money.

• This is not a fine—it’s an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

2. Opportunity to Appeal

• The recipient can appeal to the parking company.

•If rejected, they may be able to appeal to POPLA (if BPA member) or IAS (if IPC member).

• If an appeal is lost or ignored, the parking company demands payment.

3. Debt Collection Letters

• The parking company might send scary letters or pass the case to a debt collector.

• Debt collectors have no power—they just send letters and can be ignored.

No CCJ happens at this stage.

4. Letter Before Claim (LBC)

• If ignored for long enough, the parking company (or their solicitor) sends a Letter Before Claim (LBC).

• This is a warning that they may start a court case.

• The recipient has 30 days to reply before a claim is filed.

No CCJ happens at this stage.

5. County Court Claim Issued

• If ignored or unpaid, the parking company may file a claim with the County Court.

• The court sends a Claim Form with details of the claim and how to respond.

• The recipient has 14 days to respond (or 28 days if they acknowledge it).

No CCJ happens at this stage.

6. Court Process

• If the recipient defends the claim, a judge decides if they owe money.

• If the recipient ignores the claim, the parking company wins by default.

No CCJ happens yet unless the recipient loses and ignores the court.

7. Judgment & Payment

• If the court rules that money is owed, the recipient has 30 days to pay in full.

• If they pay within 30 days, no CCJ goes on their credit file.

• If they don’t pay within 30 days, the CCJ stays on their credit file for 6 years.

Conclusion

CCJs do not appear out of thin air. They only happen if:

• A parking company takes the case to court.

• The person loses or ignores the case.

• The person fails to pay within 30 days.

If you engage with the process (appeal, defend, or pay on time), no CCJ happens.

3
I doubt it. You will receive a fob-off response and you will then escalate it to the DVLA Head of Complaints as a Step 2 process.

4
Private parking tickets / Re: APCOA Penalty Notice
« on: Yesterday at 05:22:48 pm »
But the POPLA appeal has already been submitted!

When you submitted the original POPLA appeal, did you receive any confirmation that it had been received and would be processed blah, blah, blah?

DO NOT submit a further appeal. A POPLA code is valid for 33 days. It may say that it is valid for 28 days, but they allow 5 days for service of the appeal rejection. So, if the appeal rejection date is 31st March, the code would be valid until 3rd May.

Please be VERY clear... Who or which entity has sent you this "letter back asking me to use an enclosed appeals form either by post or online. But to reply by April 27th."??????

Is it from APCOA or POPLA????? You must make yourself clear and understood for heavens sake!!! Show it to us!!!!

5
You should send it anyway, just so as there is a "paper trail" of the complaints process.

6
Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking PCN
« on: Yesterday at 05:01:19 pm »
Just copy and paste this wordy rebuttal into the POPLA webform as your response:

Quote
Rebuttal to Smart Parking Ltd Evidence Pack

The evidence pack provided by Smart Parking Ltd is not relevant to the key point in this appeal. The only matter the assessor needs to consider before looking at any other material is whether Smart Parking Ltd has fully complied with all the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) in order to transfer liability for the parking charge from the driver to the keeper.

As is the keeper's legal right, they have declined to identify the driver. Therefore, unless Smart Parking Ltd can show that their Notice to Keeper was fully compliant with PoFA, the keeper cannot be held liable.

Under paragraph 9(5) of Schedule 4 of PoFA, a Notice to Keeper must be delivered (given) within 14 days beginning with the day after the date of the alleged parking event. The following dates apply in this case:

- The date of the alleged parking event was Sunday 23 March 2025.
- The next day, from which the 14-day period starts, was Monday 24 March 2025.
- The final day of the 14-day period was Sunday 6 April 2025.

Smart Parking Ltd issued the Notice to Keeper on Thursday 3 April 2025. A notice sent by post is considered to be delivered two working days later, under paragraph 9(6) of PoFA. Counting two working days from Thursday 3 April (which excludes Saturday 5 April and Sunday 6 April), the presumed date of delivery is Monday 7 April 2025.

This means the Notice to Keeper was deemed delivered (given) 15 days after the parking event. That is one day outside the 14-day limit (relevant period) required by law. Therefore, Smart Parking Ltd cannot rely on PoFA to transfer liability to the keeper.

Smart Parking Ltd has submitted an evidence pack, but none of it deals with this key issue. They have provided photographs of signage and general terms and conditions, but that is not relevant here. If the operator wishes to hold the keeper liable, they must comply with PoFA. If they do not, they must pursue the driver. As the keeper has not been identified as the driver, and as PoFA cannot apply due to late delivery of the Notice to Keeper, the appeal must be allowed.

To summarise:

- The Notice to Keeper was delivered (given) too late to comply with PoFA.
- The keeper has not been identified as the driver.
- Therefore, the operator cannot hold the keeper liable.

Accordingly, Smart Parking Ltd has no lawful basis to recover the charge from the keeper, and the appeal should be upheld.

7
Private parking tickets / Re: BRITANNIA PRIVATE PARKING TICKET
« on: Yesterday at 04:39:31 pm »
Those images are useless!!!! You need a higher resolution as the are unreadable. Also, try hosting them on Imgur.com

8
Sorry...exactly the same applies at Gatwick:


9
Private parking tickets / Re: Stansted Drop Off Charge
« on: Yesterday at 03:36:38 pm »
Just do the appeal as advised!

They will cancel, and with great impudence, tell you not to be such a naughty person in future and that you should always obey their rules.

If it were me, I simply respond to their cancellation notice, telling them to refer to the answer given in Arkell v Pressdram (1971).

I haven't paid a single drop off fee at Heathrow, Gatwick or Luton for years.

10
Private parking tickets / Re: BRITANNIA PRIVATE PARKING TICKET
« on: Yesterday at 03:23:52 pm »
What about all the dates on the NtK??? ...and the back of it!

11
Private parking tickets / Re: PCN - Milton Country Park, Cambridge
« on: Yesterday at 03:22:01 pm »
There is already a case at the same location but with a Keeper rather than a Hirer:

ParkingEye PCN - Overstay within grace period - Milton Country Park, Cambridge

12
Private parking tickets / Re: PCN - Milton Country Park, Cambridge
« on: Yesterday at 03:18:03 pm »
Milton Country Park is land under statutory control, specifically regulated by byelaws made under Section 41 of the Countryside Act 1968. These byelaws were:

• Made by South Cambridgeshire District Council;
• Confirmed by the Secretary of State on 5 April 1994;
• Came into operation on 2 May 1994.

Key Implications:

•The byelaws prohibit or regulate the use of vehicles within the park, subject to exceptions such as spaces set aside by the Council (see section 6).
• Any parking enforcement regime operated within Milton Country Park must be consistent with these statutory byelaws.
•As a result, Milton Country Park is not “relevant land” under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, meaning:
• The Keeper of a vehicle cannot be held liable for any parking charge under PoFA.
• Only the driver at the time of the alleged incident could potentially be pursued, subject to other defences.

Besides the fact that ParkingEye failed to include the copies of the required documents, the above is the reason they have not issued an NtH that invokes PoFA. If a private parking company attempts to invoke PoFA to pursue the Keeper/Hirer, or fails to account for the statutory control status of the land, such enforcement would be legally defective.

So, I would adapt that appeal slightly as follows:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the keeper of the vehicle under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("the Act").

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so.

For the avoidance of doubt, even if you had attempted to rely on Schedule 4 of the Act, you would have failed to establish liability, as the location in question—Milton Country Park—is subject to statutory control by byelaws. As such, the land is not “relevant land” within the meaning of the Act, and the provisions of Schedule 4 do not apply.

I am therefore unable to assist you further with this matter, and I look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours faithfully,
[Your Name]

13
Private parking tickets / Re: BRITANNIA PRIVATE PARKING TICKET
« on: Yesterday at 03:02:26 pm »
Also, repost the Notice to Keeper (NtK) leaving ALL DATES and times visible!!!!!!

Don't paraphrase what you submitted to Britannia in your appeal. Show us the exact wording you used.

14
Easy one to deal with… as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

Southgate Park is within the Stansted Airport boundary and as such, it is not relevant and for the purposes of PoFA 2012, which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the registered keeper. NCP cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, MET will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Stansted Airport is not 'relevant land' and Southgate Park is within the airport boundary.

If Stansted Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because MET is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for MET's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and MET has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. MET have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

15
Private parking tickets / Re: Stansted Drop Off Charge
« on: Yesterday at 02:54:31 pm »
The Keeper of the vehicle appeals with the following to APCOA:

Quote
I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Stansted Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Stansted Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver. Only elect the dropdown option of "OTHER" when appealing.

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