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Messages - challenge_cheaters

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1
Please repost the PCN with PCN number, date, and car reg visible. Your car reg is visible to all and sundry when you drive around. We can then go and look at their video.

Is this the location ?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1hTnYNjeL5zcCUZi7
Please tell your approach, (left or right turn, or head-on)

Yes, a left turn was made down this road.

2
Hi
The discount running out is just part of the process, if you go to adjudication the results is going to be (unless there are particularly unusual circumstances) either win and pay nothing or lose and pay the full rate.

Received a ticket in the same location. Curious to know how you got on?

3
Thanks for the responses and sorry for the delay.
PCN: NJ43995170
Registration: LL24GYO
Date of notice: 05/05/2026

4
Hi,

The hirer of the vehicle received this Penalty Charge Notice and was confused by the signage in the area. She was dropping her son off at a football match at the sports centre and did not see any clear signage indicating the restriction.

Please could you help with this matter? The 14-day reduced payment period ends on 19 May 2026.

Thank you.










5
I left it as 'Please select an option' and I was able to proceed.

6
No, the over-run is irrelevant and will only make them ignore the key PoFA point and answer this point instead.

Lastly (I'm on Gemini's appeal site now), what should I choose as the reason?


7
Appeal along the lines of:

I am the hirer of the vehicle and, under no obligation to do so, will not be identifying the driver. Your PCN does not comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act in order to transfer liability to me as hirer  (namely failure to include the required documents), and I am therefore unable to assist you further in this matter. I look forward to your confirmation the PCN has been cancelled.

Make sure you don't inadvertently click on a 'I was the driver' button.

They will probably reject it; and they are IAS for subsequent appeal so not that high a chance of success there either. So you would need to tough out the 'debt collector' letters and see if they make a small claims court case. This should be easily defendable on the above basis.

Thanks for this - should I not include the fact that the football tournament overran. If so, that doesn't implicate the driver at all, right?

8
Hey all, it would be great to hear your thoughts.  I believe the 14-day discount period would end on 10th April and the 28 day period on the 24th April.
Thanks

9
Did you receive any other documents with the PCN?
Please show us the back of the notice, and please confirm (in addition to the question above) if you are the hirer of the said vehicle.

Please see the back of the notice here.


I did not receive any other documentation and I am the hirer of the vehicle.

10
Private parking tickets / Gemini Parking solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« on: April 07, 2026, 05:12:49 pm »
Hi All,

The registered keeper of the vehicle initially received an email from the leasing company on 10 March advising that they had been notified of a parking charge. They confirmed they would contact the issuing authority on my behalf and request that the notice be reissued directly to me.

I have now received the PCN.


On the day in question, I had taken my two sons to a football tournament and had paid for parking from 10:06 to 14:50. Unfortunately, the tournament overran, and one of my sons sustained a minor injury which required my attention, resulting in a delay in returning to the vehicle.

I would appreciate any advice on how best to proceed.






11
Don't exclude the term time argument as all grounds should be put to an adjudicator.
Stick with it.

I won't go into the intricacies of whether a lease can be considered a disposal of a vehicle such that keepership can be considered to be transferred. It's fact specific and not relevant here because these were not the grounds under which the lease company made reps and the authority accepted reps under the 'hiring agreement' etc. argument when there wasn't a hiring agreement. The authority were NOT allowed to accept these reps.



Many thanks for the advice.
I submitted my appeal to London Tribunals on the 27 March.


 The greedy Council sent me a charge certificate on the 30 March. Is this considered procedural impropriety/ harassment?

12
A suggestion:

Appeal to adjudicator against rejection of representations - PCN *********

I refer to the above and specifically the Notice to Owner issued to me on ******.

When I received the NTO, I assumed, and therefore did not consider the alternative, that the council had a lawful basis for demanding from me the penalty to which the PCN itself referred. I therefore made representations on substantive grounds. Subsequently, I was informed by my lease company of their NTO and that they had sought to transfer liability to me as if they were a vehicle hire firm and the car was hired to me under a hiring agreement. The council accepted these grounds despite there not being proof that a hiring agreement existed and that the lessee was a vehicle hire company.

But as can be seen from the attached lease, which is summarised below, this is not the case:

Lessee: Select Car Leasing;
Form of agreement: Personal contract hire;
Term: 3 years commencing May 2024 and terminating May 2027;

I was not previously aware of the legal effect of the distinction between a lease and a hiring agreement in this context, although I can now see from the Chief Adjudicator's annual reports in 2021-2022 and 2022-2023 that I was not alone and that the matter has exercised him and the tribunal for some time:

Adjudicators have found that the legal difference between short-term hire and long
leases are not well understood by motorists and authorities.

Adjudicators have found that despite the restrictive statutory provisions which are
re-stated in case law, parties are still not grasping provisions. Adjudicators noted that
some authorities have allowed transfer even when the required evidence has not
that their representations have been accepted by some but not other authorities.


I therefore respectfully submit that there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the council in seeking to treat me as being the person liable for the penalty charge and that given that there is precedent case law my appeal should succeed on these grounds.

But OP, pl let me know whether the PCH means that you never own the car which must be returned at the end of the term.

Many thanks for this! Yes, I would never own the car and it will be returned at the end of the term. Does that change anything or is what you've written still valid?

13
I've read up on the H C Andersen point and can draft something for you on this point which is objective and regulatory and therefore adjudicators have no discretion if the facts fit. But first pl give us details of your lease e.g. from whom, when it started and when it terminates etc.
Thanks for offering to write up a draft - Please let me know if there's any more info you need from me?

14
I've read up on the H C Andersen point and can draft something for you on this point which is objective and regulatory and therefore adjudicators have no discretion if the facts fit. But first pl give us details of your lease e.g. from whom, when it started and when it terminates etc.

Personal contract hire
Started May 2024
Expires May 2027
Select Car Leasing

Thanks

15
So no reply yet to reps?

Thanks for your help so far team. They rejected the appeal I shared with you all. Attached is their rejection letter. Based on this information, please advise what I should do. I believe the 28 days to appeal will run out on the 27 March. Cheers














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