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Messages - AceKingPin

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Thanks to @cp8759 for representing me and successfully arguing my case. Sadly the council have now improved the lighting from what it was at, at the time of the PCN.

But I'd say that their inability to provide key information (such as CCTV and original appeal text) within a reasonable time-frame could make them liable as well, given the 12th March misleading around keeping the discount on hold (when it wasn't)

Hello @cp8759, I've just received the evidence pack in which my original challenge text was finally provided to me:

"Q: Please describe why you want to challenge the penalty charge notice
A: The lighting around the area and insufficient illumination of signage in advance of approaching the bus lane are the main reasons.
I was driving the vehicle at a time where street lighting was off, and I veered into the left lane assuming it was the safest lane to travel with and being uncertain whether the right lane represented a fork to force me to turn right. I didn't see adequate signage when approaching the lane (I don't think street lighting and signing was lit) that there was a restriction in that lane. I only realised after I saw the double dashed lines that gave way to the right lane traffic that I may have been in the wrong lane. But further to not seeing any visible signage on my approach, I was not aware that the validity of it extended to after midnight either. I thought it was safer for me to continue to proceed rather than reverse my car and then move to the right lane."

I would like to ask if you would be prepared to represent or assist me in this matter at all? My wife is the registered keeper and I was the driver at the time of the contravention, which has been recorded.

I'm happy to request switching the hearing to a telephone hearing as required, and I would maintain that I should still be allowed the discounted 65 rate given my earlier email submission and the council's failure to provide me with the above evidence text in time.

Hello @cp8759, I received the following in writing:

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

So I genuinely thought the discount would remain active. This response is contrary to the screenshot you've sent, and to me, it seems unfair and that I've been misled in this process.

Thanks for your responses @cp8759 and @Hippocrates.

I'm saddened to hear the discount is gone, as I was told by the council that the 'case was on hold' - does that have no meaning? I've submitted my appeal based on your advice @cp8759 - have I lost my ability to claim a discounted reduction as a result?

I'm surprised it's taken so long for the council to provide me with my original representation text which is something I'd think could be retrieved in minutes rather than the order of a month, hence my question on whether this is unreasonable. I'd think I should be entitled to review all of my information submitted BEFORE I decide to appeal, not after - and I take issue with that.

Hello, so the appeal was agreed to be considered by the Adjudicator on 30 April at London Tribunals on Furnival Street. I have the option of requesting a telephone hearing.

Thanks for your advice @cp8759 - so given the appeal is now taking place, I'm questioning:

1. Is it better to opt for a telephone hearing (cost and time of going into London)?
2. Does the council's slow response to my evidence requests count against them?
3. How long is it reasonable / unreasonable for the council to take in duration, before providing me with my original representation text?
4. Do I still have the option of the reduced charge given the delays from the council, in the event my appeal fails?

Many thanks for any help and advice.

Thanks @cp8759, I found the code in the end, had to rifle through some paperwork - so submitted a very brief appeal (ref 2240148427), stating:

"I was waiting for some further information from the council and I was under the impression the council had put the matter on hold from an email they had sent to me on 12/3/24, stating:

"We are in receipt of your further email and the case is on hold awaiting a response to be issued and sent to you. The Council are currently experiencing a backlog and so you may not receive a response for a further 2-3 weeks. The case will remain on hold until it is dealt with."

I've now received legal advice confirming the council cannot extend the 28 day appeal deadline. I am unable to form the basis of my appeal without the information I requested of the council on 12/3/24, so in lieu of this, I rely on my formal representations."

I'll know the Tribunal decision within 7 days on acceptance (or not) of my appeal.

Thanks @cp8759 - the London Tribunals website is asking me for a verification code: "On your Notice of Rejection letter you will find the verification code" - per my screenshots earlier, there isn't one, so what do I do? I can't bypass this screen.

Hi @cp8759,

It's in a state of hold - I've asked them for my original challenge text (and a putting on hold of the discount), to which I received the following:

"Thank you for your email
We are in receipt of your further email and the case is on hold awaiting a response to be issued and sent to you.
The Council are currently experiencing a backlog and so you may not receive a response for a further 2-3 weeks. The case will remain on hold until it is dealt with.
Kind Regards,
Parking Representations Officer"

Is there a line between a reasonable and unreasonable delay in providing requested information that I should be aware of?

Many thanks.

Hi @Hippocrates - I've asked the council to provide the original text of my challenge so I can post it here. This takes me over the 14 days for the discounted period. Given the delays in providing the CCTV footage and this text, in your experience does the council extend the discounted period to give me enough time to consider?

In my original challenge - I mainly mentioned the darkness, the signage and the confusion I experienced (not sure how I can retrieve the text of this from the website, there doesn't seem to be an option). I haven't mentioned anything about the "fettered to theft" approach or any of the other arguments mentioned in this thread yet though, @Hippocrates.

Do you suggest that I reply to the council via email with the "fettered to theft" approach, prior to 7th March, to see if they will budge?

I was confused at the time I saw it, and not paying attention to the width restriction I went left, thinking the right lane would force me to turn right. Whole thing is terribly unclear and in my opinion unnecessary at that time of night anyway. I'm aware of the BBC article over this money-making farce by the council.

"Unless the "fettered to theft" approach is a sure fire winner I would advise settling at the discount." - does anyone know if this is worth making my case on? It looks like I'm out of options otherwise?

Hello, managed to share the video file via Google Drive @Hippocrates - please let me know if this helps form your verdict:

So, after another prompting email today, I finally received the CCTV footage. It's revealed something that could be relevant, my driving path. I didn't realise I'd literally just turned onto Camrose Avenue from St Brides's Avenue, when I encountered the bus gate, so didn't knowingly see any warning of this or have in my view, sufficient time to react. My driving path is shown below:

So on this route I don't think I would have passed the width restriction warning, and I would have come straight up against the bus gate with very little context of knowing what was the right path to take.

Does this change anything in your opinions? @Hippocrates @MMV Redux @Incandescent? Is it worth me challenging the PCN, and if so, what are the best grounds?

Many thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Hello, can I ask on the basis of all the evidence in this thread so far (still awaiting CCTV), whether you'd think I should appeal this PCN or whether I should just pay the 65 whilst I still qualify for the discount? Many thanks

Still awaiting the CCTV, I've just chased them up again, does it normally take this long to provide?

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