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Messages - Incandescent

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1
I don't think you can do anything apart from pay, looking at your narrative, and the documents. The Notice to Owner has been ignored, so the council have, after the statutory interval, served a Charge Certificate. The option to submit reps against the Notice to Owner has expired, (you have 28 days from its service to submit them).

You can submit a Witness Statement when the council register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (the 'court') and serve an Order for Recovery. One of the reasons on the form is "I did not receive the PCN" which seems to fit your circumstances.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-te9-dart-charge-mersey-gateway-clear-air-zones-challenge-a-traffic-enforcement-order
The OfR and CC will be cancelled, and you can then appeal or pay the NtO.

2
You now submit your representations again, but please post up your draft here so we can review it and maybe add in a few suggested things. When/If they reject these reps, you can register an appeal at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, which costs nothing extra.

3
... Do you think it is worth taking the risk of paying the full fine and appealing it further?

I'm no expert so see what others suggest, but I think that if you pay up at this stage that is the matter closed.  You can't appeal further.  But I may be wrong...
If you pay now your appeal option is lost. However, if you take the matter to London Tribunals, it is the full penalty if you lose, with no extra costs, so why pay now if you could potentially win your case and pay nothing ?

4
Thank you so much.

I uploaded the PCN letter. Apparently they sent the letter of rejection on 24 December but I did not find it in the mail. I phoned today to ask them to email it to me. They said they would post it again and e-mail it so I hope to receive more information soon.
Mail going astray, even 1st Class mail seems to be a big problem at the moment if this forum's experience is any guide. Email not so much. If they rejected your reps, I would anticipate they re-offered the discount, if you paid within 14 days of letter date. Clearly you are over that now.

If you were minded to pay, I would contact them again to see if they will accept the discounted amount, although I'm only guessing that they re-offered it. If you want to stand your ground, you can register an appeal at London Tribunals, This freezes the process until the hearing, and means the penalty will then not increase beyond the £160 which they show on their website view that you posted. Best if you don't get to the Charge Certificate stage.

5
If a family mwmber is the registered keeper, then you will need a letter of authority for you to act on their behalf if you are going to submit representations and maybe take TfL to the London Tribunals. Registered keeper has total legal responsibility for payment or appealing PCNs, driver is irrelevant.

6
Then if I don't get it after 6 months what happens? Does it automatically get cancelled?  :D  :D  :D  :D
They may try it on, and serve one to you, but if its over the time limit, you just submit reps that it is Out-of-Time, and they should then cancel it. If they don't you take them to London Tribunals, win, and ask for costs because they would have passed the test of acting "wholly unreasonably".

7
The video shows you entering the box behind a moving vehicle that then stops beyond the box leaving you with insufficient room to exit the box. As far as I can see the contravention is made out.

This is a well-known location for people getting PCNs and appeared fairly regularly in the now-defunct Pepipoo forum. 7 seconds is unlikely to be regarded as de minimis, certainly not by TfL, and I doubt by an adjudicator at London Tribunals.

Can you please post-up the PCN as already requested. Also it might be prudent to find out when/if they have sent a response to your representations.  Can you please post your reps as well.

There are flaws in TfL management of the enforcement process, but people more up-to-speed on this aspect should be contributing soon, but please help us to help you by posting all the documents. All you have to redact is name and address.

The extract from the TfL PCN status enquiry shows reps rejected. The amount showing is £160 which is the full PCN penalty. This will increase by 50% if you don't pay the £160 when they serve a Charge Certificate making the amount £240. You could register an appeal at London Tribunals before the CC is served. However, I don't think you have a winning case, to be honest, but see what the others say.

8
NtOs must be served within 6 months from date of alleged contravention. This essentially mimics the limit on a summons to magistrates courts of 6 months.
It's actually six months from the date of service of the PCN, which may or may not be the same as the data of the contravention.
Sorry I got this a bit wrong !

9
Yes, we need to see the videos, but your first and major task now is to get matter reverted to the representations stage.

The plain fact is you received the postal PCN and then submitted representions, but received no reply. At the Order for Recovery stage, when TfL have registered the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, you have the opportunity to submit a Statutory Declaration that you submitted reps but did not receive a reply. TEC will cancel the OfR and the CC when they process your SD. However it must be made in-time in accordance with the timescale given on the OfR. Once things get 'oit-of-time' it becomes megadifficult. Once your CC and OfR are cancelled, TfL must  refer the matter to the adjudicator.

10
Well done ;D

Please to post up their letter to help others.
+1
we really do need to see that letter.

11
Read this and update your thread accordingly: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Be in no doubt you are going to struggle with these PCNs, but with our help you may get Transport for London to accept payment for the first PCN, and cancel the rest. Please post up the first PCN, all sides, redacting only your name and address.

12
Quote
My first question: is it lawful to demand a penalty charge of £120 PLUS the original £9 ULEZ fee?
Yes it is, but it is not lawful to demand the £9 toll on a PCN.  This was decided quite some time ago in 2018, (by the Chief Adjudicator, no less), at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, but as they don't offer an online searchable Statutory Register, it's difficult to see if there have been any decisions after this.

These regulations below define what can go into a PCN : -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/7/made
The first thing to tell you is that having receive the Charge Certificate, you have no rights of appeal any more. This doesn't mean 'game-over, cough-up', but you will have to wait for the Order for Recovery, issued when they register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre. This last stage allows you to submit a Witness Statement to TEC that you didn't receive the PCN.  OK, you did receive it, but well outside the period in which you could respond to it. That, for me, is non-receipt.
The alternative to this is to write to the council, explain the circumstances and ask them to cancel the Charge Certificate and accept your representations. This would be outside the legal process, so they are under no obligation to do anything. If they won't cancel the CC, then you just wait for the OfR. They cannot begin to recover the debt until this is done.
Once you are back to the PCN stage, you can submit reps or pay.

Quote
Second: Is there any way I can present the fact that I was away (which I can evidence) in an appeal, or will they just say that I should have had someone checking my mail for me?
Yes, of course you can, but they wouuld need to see some sort of collateral. Essentially this is an argumnt for being  offered the discount, because you were away when the PCN discount period expired.

Quote
Third: The reason I was in Bradford in the first place was that I was performing in a band, unpaid, for a charity gig. It was also my first time driving in Bradford since the ULEZ came in and I was unaware that it existed. I didn't see any signs because I was concentrating on my driving. Are any of these facts worth including in my appeal?
You can say that you were unaware of the CAZ and saw no signs familiar to you. It  is unlikely they will cancel the PCN though, although you might get the discount re-offered. BTW don't rely on any statements from council officials over the phone. Most of them are totally ignorant of the law they purport to enforce, relying on various IT systems that write letters for them.





13
NtOs must be served within 6 months from date of alleged contravention. This essentially mimics the limit on a summons to magistrates courts of 6 months.

14
Sorry, got distracted and forgot to add tjhe link. A senior moment !

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