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Messages - Incandescent

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1
I suggest you submit representions against the PCN based on what you have told us, and state that you are residents as the house where the car was standing, and request the PCN be cancelled, pointing out that you are sure the parking restriction is to prevent commuters parking there for free and then walking to Rayners Lane Underground Station, and not to punish local residents. DOn't be confrontational, because the CEO would have had no idea the car was outside its owner's house.

2
Have you proof of payment, or can get something from your bank to show that you have ?

It does seem to me they they are abusing the process. If you actually had'nt paid, they could have issued the CC very soon after the period for payment of the Enforcement Notice expired, which would have been early this year.

As you did pay, they had no need to serve an EN, so you didn't get one.  It all looks like a council ****-up, but do first check your payment went through first. Certainly DO NOT pay the CC, because you can revert the process when they register the debt at TEC.




3
Well, actually there are two signs, one each side of the carriageway, (or there were in July 2022 when the GSV camera van came along) : -

https://maps.app.goo.gl/L7yRyqFJRCZ2qJ3Q6

So not as strong a case as you think it is.

4
6 Monson Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YRZEWVKbPctjjpcf9?g_st=ac

There is this warning sign. It is, however, a bit confusing. It doesn't reflect the actual road layout.

The bus lane is round to the left (but you can't go straight on, it's a no entry side street).

The council are hugely unlikely to accept inadequate signage. There is some chance an adjudicator might, with the full penalty payable if they don't.
And also this sign, further back, so two advance warning signs. Frankly, this would make an appeal much more difficult. However there is the absolute right in law to take the matter to adjudication.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/rX18EzED4i14b3dq6
However, the real point is that once the restriction signs are reached, there is no alternative, so why not have the bus lane restriction start just past the first warning sign where there is at least a left turn option.

5
Every time I try to post a pic it says: The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.
You need to use a hosting site. Read this: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Anyway, back to your case.....
Have you moved address since the accident ?

PCN would have gone to the V5 holder for the car. They would then have submitted reps on the basis of being a hire company, and would have supplied the name and address of the hirer.

6
The CC is paid, therefore the council have no debt to register and hence no need to issue an Order for Recovery.

7
HCA has suggested grounds for cancellation on the grounds of procedural impropriety in that the PCN fails to describe the contravention that occurred. As far as I can see there is nothing else you could rely on, the signage is clear enough.

8
In the absence of any information on the location of parking in detail, all you can really select is "the contravention did not occur", this being your honest opinion of the matter.

9
So your sister paid the Charge Certificate ? In that case, the appeal option is closed off, I'm afraid.

10
Quote
with the risk of bailiffs, CCJ's, clamping of my car etc.
You're wrong on this.  THere can NEVER be a CCJ as a result of PCN enforcement; the legislation has been carefully written so this can never occur. However, if you don't follow the process through its stages, then the council can and will instruct bailiffs once they have registered the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre. But his would be after you'd lost an appeal at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, (the final stage of the process),  and not paid-up.

11
Do you think Id have a legitimate ground to appeal this PCN?
Well, you might have, but as GSV is too out-of-date to show the signs it is not possible to say whether you have a strong case or not. 

I note that threads from satnav users driving in big cities are getting rather too common on this forum. Satnavs are NEVER up-to-date. But you might say, "I updated it last night and paid 100 to do so". But if the geographical information the satnav relies on doesn't have all the traffic restrictions, it may well send you down a road you should not go down. All this modern whizzo stuff we all rely on nowadays is not totally perfect, I'm afraid.

So, what we need is sight of the signs at that location. After that, final advice can be given.

12
Can you please give us a GSV link to the location so we can look at the context of the sign and bay. However, parking in a marked bay puts you on a duty to look for the sign for the bay giving whatever restrictions there are on its use.

13
Can you please post-up a GSV link to the exact location, and tell us which road you turned out of. Inadequate signage can win at adjudication.

14
Yes, please, download it, then put it on here. You may have to use a hosting site as per the forum "Read this first...."thread.

The busgate signs seem clear enough, although it is disgusting to me that the road layout and markings are left totally unchanged, so there are no environmental clues that the road is blocked to motor vehicles

I backtracked from your GSV link and found that there is advance warning of the bus gate: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/H6DCK5zoBkVQNcTR8
If these advance signs had not been present your case would be quite strong, but if you get as far as adjudication, the council will point out this advance warning.  Were you using a satnav ?

Usually a council will re-offer the discount when rejecting representations received within the discount period, so you could submit reps on the basis of total unfamiliarity with Bristol, and ask for this to be considered in mitigation of your transgression. Post up their response when you get it.


15
Unfortunately these signs are now in very common use to indicate a "Bus Gate", and are enforceable as Bus Lane offences. The signs are very clear in the photo. 

In the 50s when ships were equipped with radar, there was an expression "a radar-assisted collision" where two ships saw each other on the radar, but seemingly ignored what they were seeing.  It looks like we have a new phenomenon of "Sat-nav assisted PCN" as we see so many threads where this is a theme.

Did you not understand what the signs meant, or just didn't notice them ?  Whilst you can submit reps, you need a credible theme, and I don't see one at the moment. Hopefully, others may do so, so wait a bit before paying.

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