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Messages - cp8759

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The Flame Pit / Re: 140mph speeding
« on: July 20, 2024, 05:02:47 pm »
So what then happens if the S172 is sent to a company for very excessive speeding, say 140 in a 30 and the company doesn't return the S172?
140 is very excessive but not unheard of. If we were talking about 200+ mph the police might investigate whether the directors were culpable.

The Flame Pit / Re: 140mph speeding
« on: July 19, 2024, 10:15:51 pm »
However, I would suggest that the accused would have to seriously go out of his way to shoot himself in the foot for the above to happen.
I don't disagree, but it does tend to happen from time to time that people shoot themselves in the foot, I've seen it a lot recently.

Hi All,
Sadly they rejected my appeal.

No they have not because you did not make an appeal, you made an informal representation and these are almost always responded to with a fob-off rejection.

More importantly, I have been sent a copy of The Harrow (Parking Places) Traffic Order 2020 as enacted and all the orders which amend the articles to that order and schedule 1, I have saved them all here.

There appears to be no provision creating a parking place in the location where you were parked, hence the alleged contravention did not occur.

The working copy of Schedule 1 is here, I have asked for a copy of the enacted version.

The Flame Pit / Re: 140mph speeding
« on: July 19, 2024, 08:06:19 pm »
The excessive speed cannot aggravate the s172 offence because there is no evidence that the driver and the recipient of the s172 request are one and the same.
I don't see why the s172 offence cannot be aggravated by the underlying offence. Let's say that I'm not the driver but am the RK and I fail to name a driver who was doing 35 in a 30 at 2 am, there isn't really anything aggravating about that.

Now let us say that my mate is driving at 3:30 pm and he does 120 mph past a school while there are children out and about, is that s172 offence arguably more serious than the previous scenario?

I would say that it is: a court could take the view that failing to name the driver accussed of a more serious offence is itself more serious than failing to name a driver accused of a less serious offence.

That's not to say that a court would (let alone must) take such a view, but unless there are any authorities to the contrary then the Crown could run the argument and invite the court to disqualify.

@Staygulf honestly you can just use the draft in reply 11 above, there isn't really any need to say anything more than that.

The Flame Pit / Over 200 PCNs overturned in Newham
« on: July 19, 2024, 05:15:23 pm »
I just had to write something about this:

Over 200 people saved from the "mugged club"!

@Admiration I think the text you've put in reply 22 above is fine, if nobody suggests anything additional within the next couple of days I suggest you submit it.

Can I even challenge the TFL PCN after they have paid?
@Savas well not really, in the sense that you can but TFL can either ignore you or send you a letter saying the matter is closed and no representations will be considered.

If they send a letter saying it's too late and the matter is closed, you can use that to pursue the penalty from Zipcar.

So, I suggest you submit a representation to TFL and wait and see what they send back.

@TMOCONTRACTLAW if you appeal while the discount is still on offer, the pattern for many years has been that TFL will not demand the full penalty even if you lose the appeal. Of course we cannot give you an absolute guarantee that TFL hasn't changed its policy this week, but you'd have to be exceptionally unlucky for that to be the case.

Main orders:

The Hillingdon (Off Street Parking Places) Order 1985
The Hillingdon (Off Street Parking Places) Order 1985 (Variation No. 19 ) 2005, which makes provisions for P&D machines
The Hillingdon (Off Street Parking Places) Order 1985 (Variation No 21) 2006, which adds Rockingham Recreation Ground car park to the order,
The Hillingdon (Off Street Parking Places) Order 1985 (Variation No. 31) 2009, which alters the parking charges in Rockingham Recreation Ground car park.

If anyone wants to look at all the orders they're saved in this folder, but as far as I can see the order has never been updated for civil enforcement and it still makes reference to excess charge notices and it being a criminal offence to fail to pay an ECN.

@beryll if you've made representations then you don't need to do anything else until you get a reply.

In the meantime I've got hold of The City Council of Bristol (Cumberland Road, Hotwells & Harbourside Ward, City of Bristol) (Reserved Bus Lane) Order 2023.

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