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Messages - NewJudge

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1
If you reject any out-of-court offers they may make (course or fixed penalty) you should be served with the "Initial Details of the Prosecution Case" along with your "Single Justice Procedure Notice". This is basically the evidence hey intend to rely on to convict you and you can examine his before you enter your plea.

2
Yes, you need to submit your licence details twice - once when responding to the NIP (or, more accurately, to the "request for driver's details") and again when you accept the fixed penalty offer. This is a common oversight and we see many cases on here in the same vein.

There is no way to have his removed from the court process. Although you suggest "it should not have got this far", when a driver fails to meet the requirements of a fixed penalty offer, there is no alternative but to prosecute him in court. The fixed penalty process is quite well defined in law and there is usually no time to extend any deadlines because prosecutions must begin within six months of the offence date. They cannot begin whilst fixed penalty offers are still "live".

You should respond to the SJPN by pleading guilty. In the “mitigation” section you should explain what happened and respectfully ask the court if they would consider fining you at a level equivalent to the fixed penalty amount. They have this guidance:

“Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances.”

Of course these difficulties were entirely of your own making. But a kindly Single Justice may feel able to cut you some slack and order you to pay just £100. Alternatively they may “split the difference” and order you to pay £100 plus prosecution costs (usually around £90). Otherwise you will be sentenced under the normal guidelines which suggest half a week’s net income (reduced by a third for your guilty plea), a “victim surcharge” of 40% of that fine and the prosecution costs.

3
The Flame Pit / Re: Incorrect signage?
« on: February 04, 2025, 05:43:57 pm »
The sign says "Customer Parking Only".

To be a customer I'm sure you agree that you need to enter the shop as a minimum.

So, enter the shop and buy something if you want to. If they haven't got what you want, or you don't see anything you fancy, or you've just gone in for five minutes to get out of the cold (in which case your status as a customer could be challenged but I doubt anyone will bother), and you cannot enter your VRM because you haven't got a receipt, see a member of staff and I'm sure they will help you out. Either that or pick up one of the many receipts that will be lying on the floor by the self-serve checkouts (some retailers provide a bin to put them in so you might be able to take one from there).

The parking conditions make no requirement to make a purchase. You have assumed that you must but you don't. Lidl's will make arrangements for you to enter your VRM if you are unable to.

Job Done!  8)

PS - I would argue that the parking is free even if you have to make a purchase. Most Sainsbury's work on that principle. You pay to park (maximum 2 hours) and get a refund as you checkout (Minimum £5 spend in my local branch). You have to spend a fiver, but when you do the parking is free.

4
Is there any indication that the police might check your insurance cover? The "speeding ticket" machine does not usually.

As far as the error goes, I think you have a case for the error to be corrected. Insurers insure vehicles, not number plates.

5
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As I can't recall the event precisely and have no video of it,...

No, but you have those photographs, which clearly show that your car crossed the white line whilst red was showing.

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I am not sure if I was slowing down the car and that's why I was moving forward.

Whatever you were doing, the photos show that you did not stop before reaching the white line. So you have committed the offence.

What exactly is the "rest of the story" which you believe the photographs do not show and which you think the court should hear?

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I am obviously going to say I was the driver so I need to respond with this info,...

No you don't. Your partner does. You will then get your own notice asking you to confirm you were driving.

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There were/are no signs for a red light camera showing or to my knowledge at this location, or is this not a requirement?

No it is not a requirement.

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can you postpone doing the educational course...

If you are offered a course you will have to complete it within about four months from the date of the offence (the offer will provide the exact details).

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...can you do it online? ie. can you ask for any special dispensations?

Most courses are held online. It will cost you about £100 which you will have to pay in one payment before you take the course.

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My driving licence is at my old address and not my current one - should I get all letters sent to that address or change my driving address today?

Your partner should provide your current address when responding to the request for driver's details. You should do likewise when you receive your own request. It would be a good idea to change your D/L details.

6
What charge(s) are listed on the SJPN?

7
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP for 24mph in a 20mph.
« on: January 30, 2025, 09:36:05 pm »
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I was hoping there would be a defence of poor sign placement, as there are no repeater signs,...

If it is a 20mph zone (which the press article seems to suggest) no repeaters will usually be provided. If it is a road subject to a 20mph limit, repeaters are advisory, not mandatory. You would have to convince a court that the limit was not adequately conveyed to such a degree that you were unaware of the speed limit.

 

8
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP for 24mph in a 20mph.
« on: January 30, 2025, 05:39:00 pm »
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I honestly didn't mean to speed,...

Intent is not required to see a conviction for speeding.

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I did one in April 22, so think I just fall within the 3 years.

What was the date of the offence which led to that course? If it was before 26th January 2022 you should be offered another one.

9
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP for 24mph in a 20mph.
« on: January 30, 2025, 04:12:58 pm »
You should be offered a course for ha speed.

10
Penalty points count for "totting up" for three years from the date of the offence. They are removed from your driving record after four years.

The circumstances of each of the individual offences are not a consideration when a totting up ban is considered. It is only the dates which matter and from your details (not to mention the fact that the court is considering disqualifying you) it seems clear you face a ban.

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I would be inconvenienced by losing my licence (currently live rurally and have to travel into London for work twice a week contractually), as does my daughter (who doesn't drive, so I am the taxi to the station).
However I worry that this is not enough mitigation,...

No it is not enough. You must convince the court that you or others will face "exceptional hardship". Being inconvenienced is not sufficient. Here's the guidance that Magistrates refer to when considering an "exceptional hardship" (EH) argument:

When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following:

It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn.

Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence;

Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive.

If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.

Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable;

Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.


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...and instead should request a short ban instead.
If you mean asking the court to impose a discretionary ban just for this latest offence, that will not succeed. That offence by itself would not attract a ban and the court would only be imposing one to avoid a totting up disqualification. Even if it did, the court has specific guidance to impose a "totting up" ban of a minimum of six months if there is a choice between a discretionary ban of less than six months or the totting up ban.

Is there any true hardship you or others will suffer for which there are no practical alternatives to overcome if you cannot drive?

11
This is very difficult when we have to come back for each bit of information.

What was the date of the offence?
When did you receive the NIP and request for driver's details?
What was its date?
When did you respond to it?
Did you keep a copy and get proof of posting?

12
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I sent it just after the 14 days

It's 28 days actually. And how long ago was that? It is very unusual for the police to prosecute for a response being a little late. Are you sure they received it? How long ago was the alleged speeding offence?

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"...as in the documents I was sent a form to nominate the driver if it wasn't me."

What exactly is this form? Is it part of the SJP pack?

13
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I wanted to know moving forward is there a way to nominate my wife for the speeding offence and have the failure to identify charge against me dropped or at least some way to avoid points.

Not that I can think of.

Unfortunately you have already committed the FtP offence and court proceedings have begun against you. The speeding charge is a dead duck because the police do not know who was driving.

Unfortunately, apart from a hefty fine and a mandatory six points, a conviction for the offence will leave you with an endorsement code (MS90) which insurers hate and you will see a considerable increase in your premiums.

Is there anything other than you "...rather stupidly forgot to send the correct drivers details within the required timeframe" on which you can elaborate.

14
The Flame Pit / Re: Have I been caught?
« on: January 25, 2025, 01:18:38 pm »
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a)...carry more wait with the magistrates

There are two schools of thought with this. One says that the court will be more convinced if the circumstances are related by the defendant personally with all the errors and emotions that might involve. If she wants to do this and is not too confident she can draft it (you can put it on here for critique) and either read it to the court or ask the Magistrates to read it themselves. She will, however, be asked to provide her evidence on oath and will undoubtedly be questioned by the Magistrates.

The other view is that  a lawyer will be more eloquent and less likely to overlook any important points or involve anything irrelevant. But of course that problem can be overcome by drafting the argument as I suggested.

In either event I believe the court will be more interested in the content rather than style.

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b)...just help with HOW to make the arguments

That is certainly an advantage that cannot be overlooked. It is important if a lawyer is engaged to ensure a motoring specialist is chosen. We have seen reports on here of  advice allegedly given by some lawyers and it is obvious that they clearly do not specialise (or, on some occasions even have much of a clue) in motoring matters.

It’s my view that a decent argument will stand up whoever presents it. You can get views and advice on here with the content. If she does reach this stage it would be a good idea to raise a thread in the "Speeding and other criminal offences" section. It might be best for her to post herself so as to avoid anything being "lost in the translation" (or transmission).

15
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP 24mph in a 20
« on: January 25, 2025, 10:54:21 am »
As you said, enforcement begins at 24mph, so you've seen that enforcement. It would be somewhat pointless if the police operated to those guidelines and then accepted "challenges" from drivers who are recorded at that speed.

You should be offered a course for that speed.

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