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Messages - tincombe

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1
Seems fine to me.

If Mr.Mustard is keeping watch, would you know where to obtain a copy of the council's Principal Order for on-street parking places? Also, what the council's view about having unlawful markings and signs along this length of street?

2
You've submitted a request, so you wait.

May we see your submission pl.

3
'I find that the Council has established that the vehicle stopped as alleged in the Penalty Charge Notice....'

You can request a review and lose nothing by doing so, but remember that by doing so the enforcement clock does not stop i.e. you have to pay within the 28-day period direction in the decision. But adjudicators are aware of this and tend to respond promptly.

When does your 14-day period for requesting a review end?

5
IMO, paras. 5,6 and 7 deal with every point raised, albeit with brevity which is unusual, and I cannot see the adjudicator's findings of fact being interfered with in any review.   

The video shows you causing the vehicle to enter the box;
The adjudicator found as facts from what they saw in the video that:
      The box was substantially compliant, which you argued to the contrary;
      You stopped because of the presence of stationary vehicles, which you
      argued to the contrary.

That's it in terms of the legal tests, IMO.

...conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

For the purposes of this paragraph “box junction” means an area of the carriageway where the marking has been placed and which is—

(a)at a junction between two or more roads;

(b)at a gyratory system or roundabout.






 

6
IMO, spot on.

OP, read this:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1974/24/section/15

Is it a 'road';
Was the vehicle parked in whole or in part other than on the carriageway;
Do any of the exceptions apply?

Having established the legal framework, let's fill in the facts gap pl.

7
Some thoughts..

I refer to the PCN dated **** and subsequent NTO dated ****.

As the authority should be aware, the prohibition which has been allegedly breached is not based in an Order, but in an Act, in this case s85 Traffic Management Act 2004 (TMA) which for your benefit I have reproduced below:

85 Prohibition of double parking etc.
(1)In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway in such a way that no part of the vehicle is within 50 centimetres of the edge of the carriageway.

8)The prohibition in this section is enforceable as if imposed—

(a)in Greater London, by an order under section 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984(RTRA);

Therefore, by virtue of s8 of that Act, a contravention falls within the scope of para. 3(2)(b) of Part 1 of Schedule 7 to the TMA, as follows:

RTRA
8.Contravention of order under s. 6.
(1)Any person who acts in contravention of, or fails to comply with, an order under section 6 of this Act shall be guilty of an offence.

...............
TMA
Other parking contraventions in Greater London

3(1)In Greater London there is a parking contravention in relation to a vehicle if it is stationary in circumstances in which any of the offences listed below is committed.

(2)The offences are—

.....

(b)an offence under section 8, 11, 16(1) or 16C of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (contravention of certain traffic orders)
[/i]

It therefore follows that in order for the authority to establish the contravention it must refer to s85 of the Act and consider the 2 legal issues:

1. Was the vehicle parked on a carriageway, and
2. Were all parts of the car more than 50 cm from the edge of the carriageway?

The CEO's photos show clearly that my car was on a carriageway and that parts of my vehicle were within 50 cm of the edge of carriageway.

Therefore, the council's own evidence shows that the contravention did not occur. The PCN must be cancelled immediately and unconditionally.

8
Private parking tickets / Re: Stansted Airport Express Drop PCN /APCOA
« on: August 27, 2026, 10:25:59 pm »
? ??
My partner is the registered keeper and unfortunately in email correspondence I have stated that I was the driver so from other posts I have seen on the forum (such as this one apcoa-stansted-airport-drop-off-pcn/msg82644/#msg82644 ) it looks like I have blown any chance of an appeal from the RK point of view by not identifying the driver

IMO, As nothing has been addressed to you, they could just ignore. You're a stranger in these matters and cannot just interject yourself in these proceedings.

Your partner was either served with a Notice to Keeper (or whatever other title is in vogue for APCOA's begging letters) or not.

Your appeal is incoherent, sorry.

You could not claim to have received a NTK, because your name and address would betray that you couldn't because yours isn't the name and address supplied by DVLA and which would be on the NTK.

Anyway, apparently you have submitted this 'appeal' claiming to be keeper when you are not etc. Let's see what transpires.


9
Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?

11
To recap:
What parking permission was obtained for 23 June e.g. a visitor's permit or payment of the parking charge?

By whom was this obtained i.e. you or the person you were visiting;

What is the restriction on the applicable traffic sign e.g. permit holders only, shared use etc?

12
Duties of an enforcement authority to which representations are made under regulation 5
.......

6) If the enforcement authority does not accept the representations, its decision notice—

(a)must—

(i)state that a charge certificate may be served on the recipient unless within the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the decision notice—

(aa)the penalty charge is paid, or

(bb)the recipient appeals to an adjudicator against the penalty charge,

(ii)indicate the nature of an adjudicator’s power to award costs, and

(iii)describe the form and manner in which an appeal to an adjudicator must be made,

[which are]:

Appeal to an adjudicator against a decision to reject a recipient’s representations
7.—(1) A recipient may appeal to an adjudicator against an enforcement authority’s decision not to accept their representations.

(2) An appeal under this regulation must be made within—

(a)the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the decision notice under regulation 6(4)(b) which states that the enforcement authority does not accept the recipient’s representations, or

(b)such longer period as the adjudicator may allow
.[I know they refer to this, but according to them this power starts a day late, see below!).

The law provides the same period for a statutory right to appeal as it does to limit the authority's power to increase the penalty, that is 'the period of 28 BEGINNING on the date of service of the NOR'.

Every time the authority references the 28-day period they get it wrong: they use 28 from the date of service.

Crass.

The NOR is the ONLY official notice which conveys your rights of appeal in detail and it must be absolutely correct on the points which matter.

It isn't.


13
Good find.

But WTF is that marking, and I'd love to get a tape measure out for those disabled parking spaces!

14
Have you registered an appeal?

Add procedural impropriety to the grounds of contravention did not occur.

They have not informed you correctly of your rights to have an appeal registered;
They have not informed you correctly of the adjudicator's power to register an appeal submitted late;
They have not informed you correctly of their power to increase the penalty and enforce its payment.


15
I refer the authority to the contravention grounds stated in the PCN, namely:

85A- Parked without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required

I also refer the authority to the contravention codes and descriptions authorised by the Mayor of London which specify, limit and reserve the use of this code and description to 'Off-Street' contraventions, that is to say car parks.

https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-03/Penalty%20Charge%20Notices%20Contravention%20Code%20List%202025%20%28Webpage%20Version%29%20%281%29.pdf


I further refer the authority to the location given in the PCN: New Butt Lane Estate, and to the CEO's photos which show a Permit Parking Area sign prescribed for use On-Street only. See Item 5 of Part 3 of Schedule 5 to the regulations(https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/5) and paragraph 1 of Part 5 (General Directions) of the same regulations which state:

1.—(1) The signs provided for in this Schedule must only be placed on or near a road to indicate the effect of an Act, order, regulation, bylaw, resolution or notice which prohibits or restricts the use of the road by traffic.

The PCN must be cancelled because either:

The alleged contravention occurred in a car park(the authority treating the named road as being part of a car park), in which case the sign has no legal effect because it is permitted for use only on roads and not car parks; or

The alleged contravention did not occur in a car park but instead on a road, in which case the contravention code may not be used as it is permitted for off-street use only. 

My both barrels version.

 


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