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Messages - OnFourWheels

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Good Evening All,

The Keeper has received a letter today from Civil Enforcement regarding an alleged overstay of free parking time at Horfield Leisure Centre in Bristol.

Here on Google Maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/tkHfHmUHTYTwRXqp8

Here is the letter:




The letter has an image of the front number plate, but instead of the rear plate there is some sort of error with a URL Printed...

The circumstances are that the driver is not a member of this facility, but had popped in to ask some questions, as well as visiting somewhere else locally. They also believe that they left and re-entered the car park during the day at some point but they don't know at exactly what times they entered/left.

The driver has contacted the facility directly (without providing any vehicle details or names) and was told they must appeal via Civil Enforcement and that they don't get involved.

In terms of signage, I'm unfortunately reliant on Google Street view as I am not particularly local to the facility:



It appears to say that free parking is limited to 3 hours for members. I'm not sure what their position is on people who aren't members?

EDIT: Thanks to b789's response to another thread, I've also discovered that the Leisure Centre is actually on land owned by Bristol City Council!



Thanks,

OFW

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: "Reminder" received - but no NIP
« on: December 15, 2025, 05:19:59 pm »
Two separate issues - the requirement (on the police) to give warning of intended prosecution under s. 1 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, and the requirement on the addressee to provide information regarding the driver's identity under s. 172(7) Road Traffic Act 1988.

Typically both of these things are bundled up into a single document, but the rules for the purposes of each requirement differ.

There is no time limit for a requirement under s. 172(7) to be served. The requirement to provide the information is not dependent on the possibility of defences to the speeding charge (such as failure to serve a NIP on the RK within the 14 days).

The requirements of s. 1 RTOA 1988 are presumed to have been complied with unless and until the contrary is proven. It is not sufficient to simply put the prosecution to proof.

S. 7 Interpretation Act 1978 provides a rebuttable presumption of service for both if the prosecution can prove that the notice(s) was properly posted, again unless and until the contrary is proven. The presumption for first class post is that the notice was delivered 2 working days after posting.

Proof of posting would typically be a manifest showing that x number of items were collected by Postman Pat, and another showing that x number of notices were prepared on that day, including the one they are claiming was sent to you.

Proving the contrary would entail the defence persuading the court that it was more likely than not that the notice(s) was not delivered within the applicable time-frame or at all. This would be a matter of fact for the court to find based on the evidence you present.

Most forces that still issue "reminders" do so after the 28 days to provide the information has already lapsed, meaning that they are not so much a reminder as a second bite at the cherry. However, we do hear of a number of cases where the "reminder" is sent in time to actually remind the addressee of the original 28 day requirement which is still ticking away.

Thank you Andy, very helpful.

Its Devon and Cornwall Police FWIW. Their "Reminder" was sent 19 days after the date of the alleged offence and 15 days after the date on their "copy" NIP. I strongly suspect that the NIP wasn't actually sent within the 14 days, and rather than admit this they have sent a "reminder". However, you've confirmed my suspicions that I would have to somehow prove this, which is essentially impossible isn't it, because the Police never lie...



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Speeding and other criminal offences / "Reminder" received - but no NIP
« on: December 15, 2025, 04:35:51 pm »
I will try and keep this brief...

Alleged Speeding Offence on 20th November 2025. (35 in a 30 Zone)

Keeper received a "Reminder of application for identity of the driver" on 13th December. This was dated 9th December, and stated that the Keeper had not yet responded to the NIP and a "copy" was enclosed. The date on the "copy" NIP is 25th November.

Keeper genuinely hasn't received a previous NIP and is sceptical that one was actually sent within 14 days, which would run until the 4th December.

So, questions:

How solid is the 14 day rule? There is no argument over details, names, addresses etc.

Should the Police be able to demonstrate that a letter was posted within those 14 days, by way of proof of postage?
I appreciate they don't and won't use recorded or tracked delivery, but is it the case that if they just say they posted it, they did? or should they be able to evidence this?

Thanks,

OFW

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