Free Traffic Legal Advice

do statutory penalties include additional punitive penalties for those challenging them at court?  I still don't understand why they didn't offer me a speed awareness course, at least for one of the penalties.

Yes, indeed.  That all makes perfect sense.  I am not sure if you are able to access google drive files but this is the link that I provided earlier to the full traffic order on the RBK website. 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VH0h-JkSu_5okGFuF0hcgwco-eFnkXIO/view?usp=drive_link

The traffic order is a big document but there are only a few bits of relevance - the wording of the restrictions and the maps which show the locations of the changes implemented in this order.  The maps on kingston vale are on pages 55 and 56.  From where it comes off the A3, the maps show that the 20mph has been added until where it meets Kingston hill when it is unmarked on the map (meaning it hasn't changed and remains  30mph), creating a very random gap on Kingston hill which is 30mph.  Then the Traffic Order states that the speed limit becomes 20mph again around Coombe Ridings where there is a 20mph terminal sign which I have disputed as being not well located as it is behind a bus stop which is frequently used.  As you have pointed out, this is likely to be a slim line of defence.

The map is found on page 66 of the Traffic Order and the rest of the hill is shown on page 72 of the document.

From the bottom of Kingston Vale until the camera by Eastcott Close/ Warren Road, the signage is an absolute mess.  If you travel from the bottom of Kingston Vale, we enter a new 20mph speed limit with no signs to indicate this, neither as terminal signs nor any roundels.  If you enter Kingston Vale from a side street (Robin Hood Lane or Derwent Avenue), there are new terminal signs indicating that the speed limit is 30mph, when it should indicate 20mph.  When Kingston Vale becomes Kingston Hill, there is no new terminal sign saying that there is now a 30mph limit.  At the top of the hill, where there are the cameras, there is the first correct terminal sign albeit, arguably, it is not well positioned. 

Can the Traffic Order not be challenged on the grounds that the implementation of the new order is deficient?  The traffic authority responsible for both signage and the traffic order itself is RBK.

Here's yet another link. - to the proposed siting of cameras, signs etc...  (For completeness sake, to add to my collection of links).
https://moderngov.kingston.gov.uk/documents/s105991/Annex%201%20-%20PLAN%2020mph%20Kingston%20Hill.pdf. I would like to promise no more links, but I can't.

Here is the link to the RBK Moving Traffic Restrictions Order 2024  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VH0h-JkSu_5okGFuF0hcgwco-eFnkXIO/view?usp=drive_link. I've asked a friend to find the specific TMO this afternoon. 
It is a very big document with all new traffic restrictions from August 2024 where everything is deeply embedded in various layers - probably in the hope that no one can find what they are looking for.   However, I have found gross inaccuracies regarding Kingston Vale which is my neck of the woods. 
They put a link on their website to this app which has maps of all the streets and they have indicated in red line that Kingston Vale is 20mph on that map.  However, There are clearly positioned terminal signs of 30mph as you go out of the Kingston Vale estate streets onto the main Kingston Vale road.  I don't know what the heck they are playing at.  Is it 20mph or 30mph?  Why have they recently put new 30mph signs at the junctions of Kingston Vale with Derwent Avenue and Robin Hood Lane as you exit those two roads if the speed limit is 20mph?  I am seriously confused.  https://streets.appyway.com/kingston-upon-thames

There are 2 TMOs I believe.  The first one, from November 2023 which the Met Police rely on in their prosecution, includes the whole of Kingston Hill.  That TMO applies to 181 roads cited under that TMO, including Kingston Hill.  If that TMO were the one in force, the signage is non-existent from the start of the road which is where Kingston Vale ends, just by Cedar Close.  Here is the google maps reference: https://maps.app.goo.gl/1uNKNf8kcppdxbd78

For that reason, I believe it does not comply with the law which stipulates that new speed limits have to have new terminal signs right from the start of the new speed limit.  There is no terminal sign for over 0.5 miles from the start of Kingston Hill to where the terminal sign is actually positioned. 

However, that TMO was hotly contested and not initially approved by the neighbourhood committee because it was deemed to be badly positioned with serious potential impact on traffic flow coming straight off the A3.  Eventually, the committee gave in under assurances that it would be well marked, the roads would have stamped 20mph roundels etc... as I have already stated earlier.  It eventually got approved in August 2024 which is when the second TMO P336 was published.  https://publicnoticeportal.uk/notice/traffic-and-roads/66c86597dfa4ae951ceaff5c
That is the second TMO.  However, now I have looked at it, the position of the speed cameras is before the start of the new 20mph zone which, as the TMO states, is 150 meters east of the junction between Kingston Hill and Warren Road.  This position is somewhere at the back of the gardens of Eastcott Close and Coombe Ridings, and not on Kingston Hill.  In which case, has this TMO been correctly thought through and implemented? 

This is a link to Google maps street view of the bus stop with the sign positioned behind it
https://maps.app.goo.gl/eynt8qrqThshdRM4A
and a little bit further along when you can still hardly see it. https://maps.app.goo.gl/JZHWxzkK8896uU6P7
Here is the position of the camera.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/wzvBiCTTppe3LoeW7
If you look at the road there are no roundels, contrary to their statement that they would ensure there was adequate signage including printed 20mph roundels.  "The Committee also commented on how prominent the signage would be when the speed decreased to 20mph. It was noted that there would be a 20mph roundel in the road and the need for the sign to be prominent was understood. "  This is taken from the committee meeting and the minutes are linked to in the previous post.

Quote from: l_maktari on November 25, 2025, 04:45:02 pm

Is there anyone I can talk to about the problem we have on Kingston Hill?  The speed cameras just before Warren Road are poorly located - behind a bus stop instead of infront of it where drivers could have a good chance of seeing it. 

There is no requirement for a camera to be conspicuous, or for any warning signs.

Is that true?  I though they needed to be clear and visible.  "8.10.6.  Speed enforcement should be highly visible, with drivers made fully aware of the
presence of cameras and of the prevailing speed limit. The camera and speed limit signs should
always be clearly visible to drivers, and not obscured by other street furniture or vegetation." (quote from the Traffic Signs Manual)

Is there anyone I can talk to about the problem we have on Kingston Hill?  The speed cameras just before Warren Road are poorly located - behind a bus stop instead of infront of it where drivers could have a good chance of seeing it. 

The signage on Kingston Hill doesn't start where it should start. The first sign should be where the speed limit changes as the Traffic Signs Manual indicates  (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf)

Instead, it is half a mile away from where the first sign should be positioned.   I am contesting 3 speeding fines I received for alleged offences in April 2025 - for driving within the old 30mph speed limit - 25, 26 and 28mph.  Magistrates hearings for the three cases will be in January and February.  I didn't even realise there was a change of speed limit until I received the NIPs.

I need my car for my work collecting and redistributing food for Surbiton Community Fridge and to support my disabled daughter who lives on Kingston Hill.  If I get 9 points added to my license, I have no buffer zone for a genuine misdemeanour which would take me off the road for 6 months and make our van's insurance uneconomical. 

Can anyone help/ advise on this matter?