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Messages - RT601-303

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The Flame Pit / Re: South Fulham's "Flying Motorcycle" Advance Warning Signs with Blue Backgrounds
« on: October 12, 2025, 01:17:27 pm »
On that basis, shouldn't the rectangular speed camera warning signs like the one below be unlawful when they are placed on roads with no speed cameras? If that's not misleading I don't know what is.
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The Flame Pit / Re: Speed awareness course - can police still prosecute if the course isn't completed?
« on: October 11, 2025, 04:16:42 pm »
Quote from: RT601-303 on October 11, 2025, 04:05:32 pm
Sorry, but I have not "decided to drip feed (you) with a vague reference to a stipulation that the course must be completed within a timescale that precedes (my) course date". I don't even fully understand your comment; In fact the exact opposite is true - I specifically stated in my very first sentence that "the course date is 7 months after the date of the (alleged) speeding offence and my understanding is that they must prosecute within 6 months". I'm not sure what part of that is causing any confusion.

I'm not disputing any of the content of your first sentence and frankly I've no idea why you even chose to bring it up. All I'm trying to establish is whether or not any action can be taken beyond the 6 month point following the date of the alleged offence as it may also be helpful to others and it's an interesting point GIVEN THAT the paperwork I received suggests that the matter will be referred back to the police and I would be potentially liable for prosecution if the course is not "completed successfully".*

It's a simple question, can they prosecute or not in these circumstances given that the course date is 7 months after the date of the alleged offence? I'm not sure what part of that is causing any confusion. My assumption based on my understanding of the 6 month rule is that there is nothing the police or authorities can do.

* I've just read part of the terms and this is the relevant part:
"you fail to participate fully during the Course the trainer may ask you to leave. In these instances, you may not be able to reschedule, and you may be referred back to the Police".

There are various similar comments, such as if you fail to appear for the course etc. in which the same scenario would apply. This refers to the AA Drivetech version but I would imagine other speed awareness courses have similar terms. I don't have a copy of the original form to hand but it definitely included a comment which stated that if you failed to complete the course "to the trainer's satisfaction" that it may be referred back to the police.

Not sure how much more information I can add to clarify the point.

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The Flame Pit / Re: Speed awareness course - can police still prosecute if the course isn't completed?
« on: October 11, 2025, 04:05:32 pm »
Sorry, but I have not "decided to drip feed (you) with a vague reference to a stipulation that the course must be completed within a timescale that precedes (my) course date". I don't even fully understand your comment; In fact the exact opposite is true - I specifically stated in my very first sentence that "the course date is 7 months after the date of the (alleged) speeding offence and my understanding is that they must prosecute within 6 months". I'm not sure what part of that is causing any confusion.

I'm not disputing any of the content of your first sentence and frankly I've no idea why you even chose to bring it up. All I'm trying to establish is whether or not any action can be taken beyond the 6 month point following the date of the alleged offence as it may also be helpful to others and it's an interesting point GIVEN THAT the paperwork I received suggests that the matter will be referred back to the police and I would be potentially liable for prosecution if the course is not "completed successfully".

It's a simple question, can they prosecute or not in these circumstances given that the course date is 7 months after the date of the alleged offence? I'm not sure what part of that is causing any confusion. My assumption based on my understanding of the 6 month rule is that there is nothing the police or authorities can do.

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The Flame Pit / Re: I've been caught!
« on: October 11, 2025, 02:50:25 pm »
Just wondering how often the words "trusty" and "Range Rover" have been used in the same sentence!  ;D

(Don't get me wrong, I drive one too, wouldn't have anything else now).

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The Flame Pit / Re: Horses' unloading on roads and/or pavements and/or pedestrian precincts.
« on: October 11, 2025, 02:47:55 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on March 27, 2025, 10:02:27 pm
My complaint is that they "offload" their smelly deposits at random and I find it to be quite incongruous that the Police et al can had out fines to dog owners whose animals conduct themselves in the same manner unless they pick the mess up, while horse owners/riders are exempt.

As a dog owner (who cleans up after his dog every time, even in the countryside where the use of the plastic bag is almost certainly more detrimental than leaving the turd where it is), I totally agree with you.

Having said that I would prefer traffic wardens to be dispatched to our parks and dog-turd-problem-areas to fine those leaving their dog's crap everywhere rather than coining it in from hapless motorists parked innocuously on double yellows in areas that are causing no problem to anybody.

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The Flame Pit / Re: Speed awareness course - can police still prosecute if the course isn't completed?
« on: October 11, 2025, 02:39:22 pm »
Thanks, appreciated.

Re. the first part, there seems to be very little information on this, the only thing I can determine is that you "may" be reported to the police who "may" consider prosecuting you for the offence if the course is not completed to the tutor's satisfaction.

I'm just curious on what basis the police could prosecute you if the course is "not completed satisfactorily" as there are no rules (or even guidelines as far as I can tell) that define what is meant by completing the course satisfactorily...and if they can prosecute you at all if the course date doesn't occur until 7 months after the date of the offence.


Re. the second part, I think you've misinterpreted my comment. I'm not suggesting I'm going to be away when the course is due to take place, what I'm saying is I deliberately left it as late as possible because I know that I'm shortly going to be away for a couple of months. It may be longer but it's highly unlikely that I won't be back before the start of the course, I just wanted to make sure I reduced the (outside) possibility of that occurring by booking the course as late as possible.

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Non-motoring legal advice / Re: BT phone bill quandry
« on: October 11, 2025, 02:23:15 pm »
Wouldn't it be statute barred if it was over 6 years old?

For example, Abbey National, or the company that bought the so-called debt from them (given that Abbey National no longer even exist, been Santander since around 2010) are still chasing me for the alleged debt from who knows when, but legally there's nothing they can do. Even if I did owe the money as it's stature barred.

Apart from that, if you haven't been involved with the business from that time then it's not your problem.

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The Flame Pit / Re: Speed awareness course - can police still prosecute if the course isn't completed?
« on: October 11, 2025, 02:00:36 pm »
Quote from: andy_foster on October 11, 2025, 12:15:42 pm
They have 6 months to instigate court proceedings for the speeding offence, from date of offence. They cannot protectively instigate proceedings (raise the paperwork in case they decide to prosecute and then sit on it until some contingent event occurs/doesn't occur).

The reason that course offers are generally not made much beyond 3 months, and the requirement is generally that courses must be completed by about 4 months is to avoid this issue.

I seem to remember that the paperwork said my course had to be completed within 6 months, but I could be wrong. I remember I was quite surprised as I expected it to be fairly soon, after all aren't they supposed to be teaching us how to drive more safely? If it's important enough to photograph us for going a few miles over the limit I would expect it to be important enough to get the course in front of you as soon as possible.

I'm going to be away for a couple of months (contractual obligation) which may run over time so I chose the latest date I could, that being just 2 days before the date by which I need to complete the course. I'm sure it was 6 months, I'll check, but it will definitely be over 7 months since the date of the offence.

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The Flame Pit / Re: Speed awareness course - can police still prosecute if the course isn't completed?
« on: October 11, 2025, 01:18:58 pm »
Quote from: roythebus on October 11, 2025, 12:03:41 pm
Some interesting points there, and if you don't do the course some different points.

I've done a few of these courses over the years and I've found that sometimes the course tutor (?) asks the wrong question. Rxample, he shows a NSL sign and asks "what is the speed limit here?" Someone raises a valid point, "what am I driving?". A car, bus, lorry, towing a trailer? There's been several similar wrong questions that have slipped my mind.

Yes, your point reminds me of a question about braking or stopping distances I was asked on my driving test, back in the 70's - The examiner asked what the braking (or stopping, can't remember) distance was for a certain speed and I said it was irrelevant as it depended on the condition of the car, brakes etc, the road condition and the driver's reaction time. He said, "I can't really argue with that". I passed.

We had a really interesting conversation and some other points came up too - another one was "What qualifications does the tutor have, based on the point that 'if you don't complete the course to his satisfaction he can refer you back to the police who can then go ahead with a prosecution if they choose to do so'," - i.e. on what legal basis do they define "completing the course to the tutor's satisfaction? I'm probably more experienced than he is!

Love the sig, I was a bus driver too for a while, long time ago.


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The Flame Pit / Speed awareness course - can police still prosecute if the course isn't completed?
« on: October 11, 2025, 11:42:25 am »
Reason I ask is the course date is 7 months after the date of the (alleged) speeding offence and my understanding is that they must prosecute within 6 months - so if that 6 month date has been and gone....

Another question, this came up while discussing this with a few friends over a drink, and somebody came up with this, which I found intriguing:

"If you don't rate the content of the course why not ask for your money back or do a chargeback if they refuse? Under the Distance Selling Regulations any product or service must be fit for purpose, if it isn't you're entitled to your money back."

As a retail business owner I thought about this and I think he actually has a valid point. I probably wouldn't try it but it's an interesting point, as the course payment fee is a bill, not a fine. Is he right?

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