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Messages - riccume

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westminster
« on: January 18, 2026, 07:01:49 pm »
I forgot to mention; in order to support the argument that the signage at this Electric Vehicle Bay is misleading to the average motorist, I asked City of Westminster council to provide the number of PCNs issued in 2025 for contravention code 231 'Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle (electric vehicles bay)' on the road, where I received the PCN, and the roads with the 5 closest Electric Vehicle Bays.

These are the results:
1. St John's Wood Road - 29 [this is where I received the PCN]
2. Grove End Road - 10
3. Wellington Place - 2
4. Circus Road - 21
5. Rossmore Road - 0

I believe this data supports my argument, also keeping in mind that the EVB on Circus Road is on a very busy high street (much busier than St John's Wood Road).

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westminster
« on: January 15, 2026, 10:00:23 pm »
Hello! Sorry I missed a few posts, not sure why I wasn't notified.

Time for an update: I've now submitted the Informal and Formal Challenge and they have both been rejected, as expected. You can find all of the docs (challenges and rejections) here.

As suggested by d612, I attached pictures of 5 of the closest EV bays to the Formal Challenge; all of them have a carriageway marking against each one of the spaces of the EV bay, unlike the one where I parked. The NOR doesn't address this point.

I will now appeal to London Tribunals over the weekend, basically using the same text used in the Formal Challenge - so I am grateful for any suggestions you might have to tighten it up. Thank you!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westminster
« on: October 06, 2025, 12:03:04 am »
I've submitted the informal challenge, it can be found in the shared folder here. I'm keeping the information provided by d612 in my back pocket for now.
Thanks all!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westminster
« on: October 05, 2025, 10:18:38 pm »
Quote from: d612 on October 05, 2025, 07:04:56 pm
Just off St John's Wood Road there is another double vehicle charging twin bay.
This time more properely marked
(Grove End road)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EdA5UFkuYRQwTKNN7
This is very helpful, thanks so much d612!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westminster
« on: October 04, 2025, 11:45:09 pm »
Quote from: H C Andersen on October 04, 2025, 09:53:57 pm
The signage (traffic sign includes road markings) is compliant and satisfactory IMO.

Let's start with your obligations as a motorist i.e. once parked in a parking place to look for the applicable sign. You were in a parking space in a parking place and did what exactly? How could the road marking mislead you unless you saw it, and if you did and were not an EV and did not charge then at whose door does this lapse land? Are you suggesting that every parking space(you call it a bay, but the correct term is space) should have its own upright sign or road marking?

IMO, you would not stand a chance at adjudication as regards the contravention.

But clearly there are differing views.

Yes we have different views, but I thank you for taking the time to review my post and share your opinion and the rationale behind it.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westminster
« on: October 04, 2025, 07:50:02 pm »
Quote from: Incandescent on October 04, 2025, 07:39:51 pm
Quote
The bay that I used has no signage that tells you that it is reserved for electrical vehicles, neither on the pavement not on the pavement. The bay next to it has signage on the floor ("Electrical Vehs") and on a pole on the pavement ("Electrical vehicle recharging point at all times. 8.30am - 6.30pm Max stay 4 hours. No return on the same day"). There is a charging point on the pavement, located between the bay I used and the bay that has signage about being reserved for electric vehicles.

Unfortunately you are wrong with this, although I have to say the carriageway text is misleading. You parked in one of two spaces in a bay reserved for EV charging. How come, do I hear you say ? Because if you look behind the photo of your car you can see a double dashed line perpendicular to the kerb indicating a bay boundary. To the left it is a normal bay, and to the right, the EV bay.
I think it is very misleading to have the sign and carrieaway marking against only one space of the EV bay, so submit reps on that basis, but the council will reject whatever you say. So you must be prepared to take them to London Tribunals on the basis of inadeqate signage under Regulation 18 of the The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996
see here: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
Indeed, misleading will be the angle here and will have to go all the way. Sloppy signage that I'm sure generates nice revenues for the council (even the GSV image has a petrol car parked there!).

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westminster
« on: October 04, 2025, 07:48:03 pm »
Quote from: H C Andersen on October 04, 2025, 06:56:08 pm
Pl post a GSV of the location.

I plan to challenge on the basis that it is misleading - but is it according to the law? Any other advice?

You were parked in a parking space within a parking place. Each space does not require a traffic sign or road marking. The limits of the parking place are, in your case, marked by double lines which indicate that the parking place is internally divided into parking spaces.

See Section 2, Definitions, of this: https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/assets/Services-Environment/civil-enforcement-officers-handbook.pdf

Thanks. You will find two GSV pix in the folder I shared, labelled GMaps01 and GMaps02. I see your point; signage according to the law. I still think it is misleading; there are two parking bays and the signage is all centred on one of the two parking bays.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Misleading signage, electric vehicle parking bay, London Westminster
« on: October 04, 2025, 04:13:40 pm »
Hello there! I've just received a parking ticket in London Westminster for Code 231: Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle (electric vehicles bay).

The bay that I used has no signage that tells you that it is reserved for electrical vehicles, neither on the pavement not on the pavement. The bay next to it has signage on the floor ("Electrical Vehs") and on a pole on the pavement ("Electrical vehicle recharging point at all times. 8.30am - 6.30pm Max stay 4 hours. No return on the same day"). There is a charging point on the pavement, located between the bay I used and the bay that has signage about being reserved for electric vehicles.

A copy of the PCN, PCN pictures, my pictures, and Google Maps screenshots can all be found here. My car is the grey SUV.

I plan to challenge on the basis that it is misleading - but is it according to the law? Any other advice?

Thank you!
Riccardo

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