Show Posts - freedom07

Quote from: Bailiff Advice on 07 Aug, 2025 19:44Quote from: freedom07 on 07 Aug, 2025 19:34No, after I had paid in February, the only time I was contacted by letter or email by Newlyn was AFTER they had taken my vehicleWhen making payment in February, had you made payment because after returning home, you noticed correspondence from the enforcement company? Had a visit been made by the bailiff. If you are now considering filing an Out of Time application, is there a reason why you had not submitted the application in January/February when you first became aware of the PCN?i didnt realise out of time application was an option. in febuary i was notified that my car had been clamped by text message

Quote from: Enceladus on 07 Aug, 2025 14:35Do you have a document titled Notice of Enforcement?If so, then please post it up and please confirm that the name and address on the NoE is yours and correct and current?So the car is apparently up for auction on ebay. Have you checked? Please post up a link to the ebay listing.What's the make and model of the car and the VRM?The warrant is said to be dated 10th Jan 2025.I suggest that you phone the TEC helpdesk and check the address the address on the warrant and whether or not the warrant has been re-sealed (re-issued) against your current address and when?Traffic Enforcement Centre 0300 123 1059Opening TimesTelephone Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pmno, after i had paid in feburary, the only time i was contacted by letter or email by newlyn was AFTER they had taken my vehicle

Quote from: abc on 05 Aug, 2025 07:02The core legal position is that enforcement power under a warrant of control ceases to have effect once the debt is paid in full. The authority to take control of goods, including the power to remove or sell them, derives exclusively from Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. Paragraph 6 of that Schedule provides that the enforcement power is exercisable only while the sum outstanding remains unpaid. Upon full payment, the warrant is spent, and any further enforcement activity is without lawful authority and amounts to trespass and conversion.You state that the penalty charge was paid in full in February 2025 and that Newlyn issued a receipt confirming a nil balance. That receipt is not merely evidence of the transaction but a material representation by the enforcement company that the debt was satisfied. Once that occurred, all statutory powers of entry, seizure, and sale were extinguished. It follows that the seizure of your vehicle in August was unlawful unless Newlyn can establish either that the February payment was not actually received or that it was properly reversed before enforcement recommenced. You are entitled to put them to strict proof.The next step, therefore, is to prove the flow of funds and the discharge of the debt. You must collate and preserve the following evidence: (a) the February 2025 receipt from Newlyn showing a zero balance; (b) any online payment confirmation or email receipt issued at the time of payment; (c) your bank or card statement showing the exact date, amount, and recipient of the funds; and (d) any correspondence with Newlyn confirming that enforcement was closed or dormant thereafter. This evidence will be crucial both to secure the immediate return of your vehicle and to support any subsequent claim for damages or restitution.As regards the bailiff’s suggestion that the payment was 'cancelled', that assertion is legally and procedurally fraught. If a card payment was reversed or dishonoured, Newlyn was under a duty to notify you and allow you an opportunity to regularise the position before recommencing enforcement. The sudden removal of your vehicle without prior notice or an updated compliance letter breaches Regulation 7 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013, which requires at least seven clear days' notice unless the court directs otherwise. Moreover, the failure to notify you of the vehicle’s location violates the statutory obligation under paragraph 61(4) of Schedule 12 to keep controlled goods safe and make them accessible to the debtor.In these circumstances, enforcement beyond February 2025 appears to have occurred without jurisdiction. Your vehicle has been taken when the underlying warrant no longer authorised such action, and the agents have refused to disclose the vehicle's location or basis for their conduct. This conduct is not only procedurally deficient but substantively unlawful.To protect your position, you have several options. First, if auction is imminent, you should prepare and file an urgent application to the County Court for an interim injunction to restrain sale. The grounds are that the enforcement action is ultra vires, the debt was discharged, and the risk of irreparable loss (through sale of your vehicle) outweighs any inconvenience to the Defendant. A supporting witness statement should exhibit the February receipt and all payment confirmations.Second, you should write to Newlyn and the instructing authority (usually the local council) placing them on notice of a claim for unlawful interference with goods and conversion. The council must be reminded that it remains liable for the acts of its enforcement agents pursuant to Southwark LBC v Woelke [2013] EWHC 3492 (QB). Demand immediate disclosure of the payment and enforcement history under the Data Protection Act 2018, including all logs showing how and when the February payment was allegedly cancelled.In Southwark LBC v Woelke [2013] EWHC 3492 (QB), the High Court confirmed that a local authority is vicariously liable for the unlawful acts of enforcement agents it instructs. This directly advances your position by allowing you to pursue the council, not just Newlyn, for the wrongful seizure of your vehicle. Where enforcement has continued after payment of the debt and the authority to act under the warrant has expired, any further action by the bailiffs is ultra vires. If Newlyn acted without lawful justification in removing and threatening to sell your car, the council, as the instructing creditor, is equally liable in tort for conversion, trespass to goods, and breach of statutory duty under Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. This principle ensures that you are not left at the mercy of evasive enforcement agents and can hold the council accountable for securing redress, damages, and return of your vehicle.Third, while it is open to you to pay the amount demanded under protest (mitigation on further damages) to recover your vehicle, that payment must be explicitly made without prejudice and accompanied by written notice reserving all rights to bring proceedings for restitution and damages. If you choose this course, the principle in Burton v Ministry of Justice [2024] EWCA Civ 681 supports a subsequent claim that fees or actions taken without lawful authority may be set aside and repaid.In Burton v Ministry of Justice [2024] EWCA Civ 681, the Court of Appeal held that enforcement agents who act outside the scope of their statutory powers, such as pursuing fees not lawfully due or enforcing against exempt goods, commit actionable wrongs. This authority supports your position that once the debt was paid in full and the warrant thereby exhausted, Newlyn no longer had any legal power to seize your vehicle. Any fees demanded or actions taken thereafter fall outside the statutory enforcement scheme and are therefore unlawful. The case affirms your right to seek recovery of improperly charged fees, damages for wrongful interference with goods, and restitution where payment was made under protest to avoid further loss. It confirms that statutory limits on enforcement activity are strictly construed and that agents who exceed them may be held liable.Lastly, you may consider, if the original PCN was already the subject of enforcement and is now being enforced a second time, whether to file an out-of-time witness statement with the Traffic Enforcement Centre under CPR 75.7(3), asserting that the enforcement is improperly duplicative or abusive. However, that mechanism is more appropriate where the underlying PCN was not known to you; in your case, the issue is the unlawful continuation of enforcement after payment.The legal foundation of your position is therefore as follows: enforcement authority ended when payment was accepted in February 2025. Any subsequent action taken by Newlyn is without jurisdiction and unlawful. You should act immediately to stop the auction, compel return of the vehicle, and preserve all rights to compensation.You have a strong argument in estoppel by representation. Newlyn confirmed the debt was paid in full and issued a zero balance receipt. You reasonably relied on that, took no further steps, and have now suffered loss. It would be inequitable for them to contradict that position. Estoppel therefore prevents them from reasserting liability or enforcing further fees based on the same debt.hi i emailed you

Hi,here are the documents, i have just taken out some sensitive detailsone of them is from feburary after i paid the debt, newlyn sent me the balance which is £0the other 2 is the only thing i received months after paying. that is the 2 sided letter saying the new amount i owe (its a lot more now due to storage fees) and that they took my car.please note that the case number is exactly the same for both documentscurrently im trying to file an urgent notice to the county court to stop the sale of the vehicle and return it to me, but i dont know how to do thati googled my local county court and called them but i keep being bounced from one operator to another (they say that ive come to the wrong depeartment for my type of case)i dont know to file such a thing or how long it takes to do before they act and stop the baliffscan anyone please advise me

Quote from: abc on 06 Aug, 2025 08:05You have every reason to challenge what has occurred, especially given that you paid the debt in full in February and were later told it was reversed without your knowledge. Even if enforcement were lawfully resumed, which remains highly questionable, there are strict procedures that must be followed, including giving you clear notice and not imposing additional fees unless properly justified under the regulations.Storage fees, for example, cannot simply be added without proof. Under the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014, enforcement agents may only charge fees that are either fixed or reflect actual costs incurred. If storage is claimed, they must be able to show that they paid for it and that the amount is reasonable. This is not a discretionary fee and cannot be inflated or imposed without proper documentation.As your next step, you may wish to file an urgent application to the County Court to stop the auction and seek the return of your vehicle. You can explain that the debt was previously paid, no valid notice was given, and the fees now demanded are not supported by law. If you are considering paying the fee under protest to recover your car, make sure you clearly record that the payment is made under objection so that you can later pursue a refund through the appropriate legal process.If you are also submitting PE2 and PE3 forms to challenge the original PCN, and they are accepted, then yes, if the court cancels the enforcement order, you may be eligible for a refund of enforcement fees already paid. Just be aware that the outcome depends on the tribunal accepting your reasons for filing late.Stay calm, keep copies of all evidence, and ensure everything you submit to the court or to the Traffic Enforcement Centre is clear, complete, and supported by documentation. If you need help preparing your court application or understanding the legal position in more detail, seek individual advice as soon as possible. Time is now very short before the auction date.I really appreciate everyone's help on this and will keep everyone informed of what happens in the coming weeksi have a couple of questions 1. how do i file an urgent application to the county court to stop the auction, i live in barnet londonand how long do they take to act?2. i was considering just paying the fee for now and contesting it with the pe2/3 and then contesting it with the council if successful with the pe2/3you reassured me by saying that everything i paid will be refunded if im successful in bothi just have a question when i pay/ pick up the vehicle, i was told online that i will have to admit liability and waive my right to contest later, and if i dont then they wont give my vehicle back, so what do i do in that situaiton?

Quote from: H C Andersen on 05 Aug, 2025 22:06OP, in your first post you said:last year I drove into a street that needed a permit in London and got a fine. I was away for months and came back with a baliffs order.Now you're claiming: I would like to contest to original PCN which i am doing a PE2/PE3 form because i got the pcn whilst rushing to the hosptial.Your accounts are at variance.In any event, once your submission is registered bailiff enforcement must cease. It can resume when TEC's decision is issued.Once you've submitted your out of time application it cannot be amended. It seems you've done this without input from BailiffAdviceOnline.Good luck.Hello, thank you for your reply,im not sure i understand, are you saying as soon as PE2/PE3 is submitted they stop all enforcement? do they not have to look at the forms first? even when they already have my vehicle?my concern is if 1. if i submit it they wont look at it and pause enforcement for a while and by that time my vehicle is sold off2. i need a county court witness for PE2/3 to be submitted, which i cant get instantly, i have to get a schedule for this in my local country court so that would be after my vehicle is already auctionedI only have around 4 days before they auction my vehicle

Quote from: disgruntchelt on 05 Aug, 2025 20:58Do you have a bank statement or credit card statement with the money going out then coming back in?upon checking, yes i do

I would like to contest to original PCN which i am doing a PE2/PE3 formbecause i got the pcn whilst rushing to the hosptial if im successful in contesting this but it was after i paid the baliffs to get my car back, do i get a full refund?i dont know if i have a caseeven if i dont have a casehow can i argue it to be the £500 i originally paid because i did pay it and now i feel like i shouldnt need to pay these extra fees that came after it

Quote from: stamfordman on 05 Aug, 2025 13:22The maximum amount with all fees including the sale fee for the most costly London PCN (TFL - £180) is £700. It's possible there could be storage fees on top but you say they've only just taken the car.yes theres about a week of storage fees

Quote from: H C Andersen on 05 Aug, 2025 13:01Thank you for clarifying that you paid the debt in full, and that it was refunded due to an internal error or technical failure in Newlyn’s payment system.Sorry, but objectively we don't know this is correct. OP, what does 'yes the transaction was reversed, i was told because the had a hold on the account,' mean? Who is 'they'?they clamped my vehicle in feburarythen i paid it in February in fulla few days later the payment was reversed because (as the agent told me) the case was on hold (i think he mentioned the council had it on hold) but i didnt know this until this monthso maybe they shouldnt have even clamped my vehicle in the first placeso now thats potentially a clamping that shouldnt have happenedand i paid it anyway then months later, taking my vehicle that shouldnt have happened and asking me to pay more fees because they took it again and fees going up per day

Quote from: abc on 05 Aug, 2025 12:55Thank you for clarifying that you paid the debt in full, and that it was refunded due to an internal error or technical failure in Newlyn’s payment system. That materially strengthens your position. In law, the enforcement power under the warrant ceased at the moment full payment was received. The fact that Newlyn’s own system then reversed the transaction, without informing you, does not revive the warrant or authorise a second round of enforcement unless strict statutory procedures were followed.Paragraph 6 of Schedule 12 to the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 provides that the power to take control of goods is exercisable only while the sum outstanding remains unpaid. Once full payment was received, the enforcement power was spent. A subsequent internal refund does not automatically reinstate the warrant. If Newlyn considered that the debt remained unpaid due to a failed transaction, they were obliged to recommence the process with a new notice of enforcement under Regulation 7 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013, giving you not less than seven clear days’ notice. The failure to do so renders the seizure of your vehicle unlawful and without jurisdiction.Moreover, you relied on Newlyn’s representation that the debt was settled. They issued a receipt confirming a zero balance. That representation gave rise to an estoppel by conduct. You were entitled to believe the matter was closed. To seize your vehicle many months later, without prior notice, based on an internal reversal you were never informed of, is both procedurally defective and substantively unlawful.Newlyn’s act of imposing fresh enforcement fees, without issuing a new notice of enforcement, is a breach of the statutory fee regime set out in the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014. Those regulations do not allow for multiple compliance or enforcement stage fees to be charged under a single warrant unless specific conditions are met. Where enforcement has ceased, it cannot be revived without a new compliance stage. The sudden reappearance of bailiffs at your door, demanding double the original sum, without warning, breaches your rights under civil enforcement law and supports a claim for restitution, trespass, and conversion.You should now take the following action as a matter of urgency:(a) prepare an urgent application to the County Court for an interim injunction to restrain Newlyn from auctioning your vehicle. The basis is that the enforcement was ultra vires and without jurisdiction due to payment having been accepted and no lawful revival of enforcement powers. The application should include a draft order, a witness statement with exhibits (the original receipt, bank payment, refund evidence if available, and correspondence), and a skeleton argument referencing paragraph 6 of Schedule 12 and Regulation 7.(b) write a formal letter before action to Newlyn and the instructing council asserting that the seizure was unlawful and demanding immediate return of your vehicle, cancellation of all fees, and confirmation that no further enforcement will be attempted. The letter should notify both parties of your intention to claim for trespass to goods, conversion, and restitution, with reliance on Southwark LBC v Woelke [2013] EWHC 3492 (QB), which confirms the council’s vicarious liability for the bailiff’s acts.(c) if you are financially or practically compelled to pay the £1,000 to recover your vehicle, you must make that payment expressly under protest, accompanied by a written reservation of your legal rights. This preserves your ability to recover the money through the courts as a payment made under compulsion and without lawful basis. The Court of Appeal in Burton v Ministry of Justice [2024] EWCA Civ 681 affirms that enforcement agents who act without lawful authority are liable for any sums collected outside their statutory powers.You are well placed to challenge this seizure as unlawful. The debt was paid. The refund occurred through no fault of yours. No lawful notice was issued. Your vehicle was taken without authority and you have been exposed to excessive, improper fees. The law offers clear remedies in this situation and the courts will not support the abuse of process by agents seeking to revive expired warrants through technical error.thank you very much, i will attempt thisi only have a few days left before it's auctioned will the county court act in time? do you have a link or contact number? the car was taken in barnet london

Quote from: stamfordman on 05 Aug, 2025 12:37Have you got any paperwork. If so post it.Looks like there is more than one PCN.no this is one PCN i paid it wholebut they messed up their system refunded it and now months later they took my car and added more fees on top

Quote from: abc on 05 Aug, 2025 07:02The core legal position is that enforcement power under a warrant of control ceases to have effect once the debt is paid in full. The authority to take control of goods, including the power to remove or sell them, derives exclusively from Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. Paragraph 6 of that Schedule provides that the enforcement power is exercisable only while the sum outstanding remains unpaid. Upon full payment, the warrant is spent, and any further enforcement activity is without lawful authority and amounts to trespass and conversion.You state that the penalty charge was paid in full in February 2025 and that Newlyn issued a receipt confirming a nil balance. That receipt is not merely evidence of the transaction but a material representation by the enforcement company that the debt was satisfied. Once that occurred, all statutory powers of entry, seizure, and sale were extinguished. It follows that the seizure of your vehicle in August was unlawful unless Newlyn can establish either that the February payment was not actually received or that it was properly reversed before enforcement recommenced. You are entitled to put them to strict proof.The next step, therefore, is to prove the flow of funds and the discharge of the debt. You must collate and preserve the following evidence: (a) the February 2025 receipt from Newlyn showing a zero balance; (b) any online payment confirmation or email receipt issued at the time of payment; (c) your bank or card statement showing the exact date, amount, and recipient of the funds; and (d) any correspondence with Newlyn confirming that enforcement was closed or dormant thereafter. This evidence will be crucial both to secure the immediate return of your vehicle and to support any subsequent claim for damages or restitution.As regards the bailiff’s suggestion that the payment was 'cancelled', that assertion is legally and procedurally fraught. If a card payment was reversed or dishonoured, Newlyn was under a duty to notify you and allow you an opportunity to regularise the position before recommencing enforcement. The sudden removal of your vehicle without prior notice or an updated compliance letter breaches Regulation 7 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013, which requires at least seven clear days' notice unless the court directs otherwise. Moreover, the failure to notify you of the vehicle’s location violates the statutory obligation under paragraph 61(4) of Schedule 12 to keep controlled goods safe and make them accessible to the debtor.In these circumstances, enforcement beyond February 2025 appears to have occurred without jurisdiction. Your vehicle has been taken when the underlying warrant no longer authorised such action, and the agents have refused to disclose the vehicle's location or basis for their conduct. This conduct is not only procedurally deficient but substantively unlawful.To protect your position, you have several options. First, if auction is imminent, you should prepare and file an urgent application to the County Court for an interim injunction to restrain sale. The grounds are that the enforcement action is ultra vires, the debt was discharged, and the risk of irreparable loss (through sale of your vehicle) outweighs any inconvenience to the Defendant. A supporting witness statement should exhibit the February receipt and all payment confirmations.Second, you should write to Newlyn and the instructing authority (usually the local council) placing them on notice of a claim for unlawful interference with goods and conversion. The council must be reminded that it remains liable for the acts of its enforcement agents pursuant to Southwark LBC v Woelke [2013] EWHC 3492 (QB). Demand immediate disclosure of the payment and enforcement history under the Data Protection Act 2018, including all logs showing how and when the February payment was allegedly cancelled.In Southwark LBC v Woelke [2013] EWHC 3492 (QB), the High Court confirmed that a local authority is vicariously liable for the unlawful acts of enforcement agents it instructs. This directly advances your position by allowing you to pursue the council, not just Newlyn, for the wrongful seizure of your vehicle. Where enforcement has continued after payment of the debt and the authority to act under the warrant has expired, any further action by the bailiffs is ultra vires. If Newlyn acted without lawful justification in removing and threatening to sell your car, the council, as the instructing creditor, is equally liable in tort for conversion, trespass to goods, and breach of statutory duty under Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. This principle ensures that you are not left at the mercy of evasive enforcement agents and can hold the council accountable for securing redress, damages, and return of your vehicle.Third, while it is open to you to pay the amount demanded under protest (mitigation on further damages) to recover your vehicle, that payment must be explicitly made without prejudice and accompanied by written notice reserving all rights to bring proceedings for restitution and damages. If you choose this course, the principle in Burton v Ministry of Justice [2024] EWCA Civ 681 supports a subsequent claim that fees or actions taken without lawful authority may be set aside and repaid.In Burton v Ministry of Justice [2024] EWCA Civ 681, the Court of Appeal held that enforcement agents who act outside the scope of their statutory powers, such as pursuing fees not lawfully due or enforcing against exempt goods, commit actionable wrongs. This authority supports your position that once the debt was paid in full and the warrant thereby exhausted, Newlyn no longer had any legal power to seize your vehicle. Any fees demanded or actions taken thereafter fall outside the statutory enforcement scheme and are therefore unlawful. The case affirms your right to seek recovery of improperly charged fees, damages for wrongful interference with goods, and restitution where payment was made under protest to avoid further loss. It confirms that statutory limits on enforcement activity are strictly construed and that agents who exceed them may be held liable.Lastly, you may consider, if the original PCN was already the subject of enforcement and is now being enforced a second time, whether to file an out-of-time witness statement with the Traffic Enforcement Centre under CPR 75.7(3), asserting that the enforcement is improperly duplicative or abusive. However, that mechanism is more appropriate where the underlying PCN was not known to you; in your case, the issue is the unlawful continuation of enforcement after payment.The legal foundation of your position is therefore as follows: enforcement authority ended when payment was accepted in February 2025. Any subsequent action taken by Newlyn is without jurisdiction and unlawful. You should act immediately to stop the auction, compel return of the vehicle, and preserve all rights to compensation.You have a strong argument in estoppel by representation. Newlyn confirmed the debt was paid in full and issued a zero balance receipt. You reasonably relied on that, took no further steps, and have now suffered loss. It would be inequitable for them to contradict that position. Estoppel therefore prevents them from reasserting liability or enforcing further fees based on the same debt.thank you for your detailed replyyes the transaction was reversed, i was told because the had a hold on the account, but that isnt my fault i didnt even know about that.they also said they sent out 1 more letter informing me of this but wouldnt tell me when they sent itthe only letter i got was after they took my carand now theyre saying the debt is £1000 which is double what i paidModify message

Quote from: H C Andersen on 05 Aug, 2025 08:44Very thorough, but predicated on the OP's version of events which has not been tested by us...in this respect I refer to a current thread where the OP swore that their car hadn't moved, verified by their PAYG insurance (whatever that might be) only to remember when faced with a video that they had allowed a friend use of the car on the day in question.I could not see the suggested action here as being in the realms of the practicable for the OP:First, if auction is imminent, you should prepare and file an urgent application to the County Court for an interim injunction to restrain sale.OP, was your payment reversed? We need date of funds out and in and a copy of the bailiff's confirmation regarding initial payment. Plus, what car are we talking about and its open market value. When have they indicated that it might be auctioned i.e. how much time do you have?how do i file an urgent application to county court? the sale is on 11th of august.. will it be on time?yes the transaction was reversed, i was told because the had a hold on the account, but that isnt my fault i didnt even know about that.they also said they sent out 1 more letter informing me of this but wouldnt tell me when they sent itthe only letter i got was after they took my carand now theyre saying the debt is £1000 which is double what i paid

thank you for everyone's replyI tried calling and texting the baliff agent today that handles my case and has my car...no answerso my fears are becoming truedepsite having a valid reason for them not taking my carthey push me to only to talk to this agent and this agent doesnt reply and in a few days my car will go to auction all whilst the fees are going up per day