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Messages - MuBa99

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 26, 2025, 02:19:44 pm »
Thank you, the enforcement policy is really useful. The table on page 34 gives some instances where they would exercise discretion and I feel that my situation is similar given that I can provide evidence that I hold the required permits and cards to have benefitted from free parking. There is really no reason for me to park there without using the 30 minutes free so it's clear to me that I wouldn't... I have also managed to find my Ringgo history and it shows me doing just that for the rest of that week (and for months before and after) so I wonder if including that would help.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 26, 2025, 10:58:15 am »
Bump for any further advice re: whether to continue and what to put in the formal rep if so. The council have extended the payment date on the basis that I did not see it due to it being marked as junk.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 25, 2025, 10:32:27 am »
Thanks very much for this. My informal rep was very polite and unassuming but that doesn't seem to have made a difference! I cannot access my Ringgo history for the time of the alleged contravention as it only goes back to April on my phone, but I have multiple screenshots of having done the same every day that I've had to park in pay and display rather than a permit bay. It doesn't make sense for me to not register for the free half hour so I do do it!

How would you form the formal rep to maximise chance of still being offered the reduced rate if unsuccessful? Is it ultimately pointless given that I was parked before 5:30pm without Ringgo having registered? I'm not sure I can prove any attempt to register my parking as they say there's no log of me attempting to on their end.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 25, 2025, 09:16:15 am »
I have emailed the council previously as this space used to be a pay and display with a ticket machine and option to pay by phone/Ringgo, with the signage you mention stating that it is A2, and it was changed to a pay by phone space with the machine removed a few years ago. The council communicated the change in space type, but not any change to how the permit hours would be affected, by letter to all residents. I then received a PCN for parking in the space at 6pm without payment, which I challenged on the basis that, as a previous pay and display space, the first and last hour each day were free for permit holders. The council responded admitting that this was also the case for pay by phone spaces and cancelled the charge. So I do have that in writing from the council that this space benefits from first and last hour free for permit holders.

Yes, I am the registered keeper.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 25, 2025, 06:07:35 am »
Furthermore, the parking attendant would have been well aware that my permit allows me free parking from 5:30pm and issued a notice at 5:27pm, which again gives a £30 fine for 3 minutes. This doesn't seem proportional.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 25, 2025, 06:04:12 am »
Quote from: H C Andersen on June 24, 2025, 09:21:16 pm
As far as I can see, the permit doesn't give any rights in a simple pay bay.

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/richmondcard/richmond_card_for_parking

Do you hold a Richmond Card? 

If you live in the Borough and hold a Richmond Card, you can get 30 minutes free parking in our:

Pay and Display parking bays
Council-owned car parks
You can only park for a single session for a period of up to 30 minutes. If you wish to park for longer you must pay for the total duration of your stay.

Richmond Card and RingGo  https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/resident_discounts_ringgo

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/how_to_use_ringgo

The objective facts as per the council are that there is no record of you having attempted to comply with the RingGo requirement which, if you're registered, would have entitled you to 30 mins parking only. It was not a type of bay which provided any resident permit holder benefits as far as I can tell from what you posted (and the council's photos) and therefore if you had wanted to stay beyond 30 minutes then you were required to pay. But the PCN doesn't deal with what might have happened, only what did.

What evidence do you have that the council's response is ill-considered because you can prove that you made every reasonable effort.

Just looking for an angle here.

Hi, the parking permit does give rights in a pay and display bay, here is a table setting it out: https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_permits/where_to_park

In the table it says pay and display bays can be used for a free hour at the beginning and end of each enforced period, e.g. between 8:30am and 9:30am where the parking enforcement starts at 8:30am and from 5:30pm where parking enforcement ends at 6:30pm.

I do have a Richmond card and my Ringgo account is set up so that I get a 30 minute free parking period when I "pay" to park. I do this every day when I get home from work. I park in the space outside my house, register for the half hour, and this takes me past 5:30pm at which point parking for me is free because restrictions end at 6:30pm and my permit allows me that final hour free. So, with the combination of my free 30 minutes from Ringgo because I have a Richmond card, and my A2 parking permit, I do not pay for any parking in a pay and display bay after 5pm (if the bay operation times end at 6:30pm, which these ones do).

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 24, 2025, 05:45:29 pm »
The relevant links would be as follows:

30 minutes free parking:
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/resident_discounts_ringgo
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/resident_parking_discounts

Resident permit:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.richmond.gov.uk/media/24084/zone_cr_resident_permit_guidance.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjqoIGHwIqOAxWnVkEAHZEvOgwQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3XlqMAUh46bgl1SIaYj4NU

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 24, 2025, 05:41:32 pm »
Quote from: H C Andersen on June 24, 2025, 05:38:48 pm
Your claims must be enshrined in some document or other surely, perhaps also with terms and conditions.

You are being penalised for being parked at all without the right to do so. The '5 minutes' is a concession and decision-making buffer zone to ensure that any permitted activity can be checked thoroughly. IMO, without having obtained the right to park you were in contravention from when the CEO first observed the vehicle, not 5 minutes later.

By your reckoning then it would be 11 minutes of parking, which is surely not commensurate with a £60 fine given it would have been no charge.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 24, 2025, 04:57:34 pm »
Quote from: H C Andersen on June 24, 2025, 04:35:12 pm
I infer that the OP parked until well beyond 5.30, therefore well more than 8 minutes. Surely concessions have to end some time? Why is 8 mins not OK?


IMO, unless you can counter their claim that there is no record of you even attempting to procure your free parking period (and as a resident you presumably knew that a successful log-in would have been accompanied by confirmation of some sort) then based upon what we know I don't see that you have other than mitigation.

Except that the contravention is for non-payment.

We need to see whatever authority you have as a resident to obtain 30 minutes' free parking for nothing subject to obtaining a virtual online permit or whatever it's called. The traffic sign in evidence says Pay by phone until 6.30 pm. How do you get 30 minutes and then an hour free? Pl explain. Perhaps there's mileage in the contravention description?

I am a resident and therefore entitled to 30 minutes free parking in any pay and display space. Had the Ring go "payment" gone through, I would have had free parking up to and after 5:30pm. However, as a resident with a parking permit, I do not need to pay anything after 5:30pm as we get the first and last hour of the day free. So the spaces are operating 8:30-18:30 for non-residents, but 9:30-17:30 for residents. Given that the PCN was issued at 17:27, I was therefore penalised for 3 minutes of parking.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: June 24, 2025, 12:49:11 pm »
Unfortunately this went to my junk mail so deadline for reduced payment is Friday, can anyone suggest whether it's worth formal representations?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: March 13, 2025, 03:34:48 pm »
Thank you both, done, I await their response!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: March 13, 2025, 09:06:28 am »
Bump for help please



Apologies meant also to tag @cp8759 in original post!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / PCN Richmond upon Thames, 11U Parked with payment, Chislehurst Road (CPZ A2), pay by phone space
« on: March 11, 2025, 12:10:10 pm »
Good afternoon all

Thank you for providing this forum and your help.

I have received this PCN from parking in a pay by phone space. I arrived at the space just after 5pm. In line with my resident status, I am entitled to 30 minutes free on Ringgo. I thought I had booked this and was surprised to get a PCN, but have found that it must not have gone through; signal is notoriously bad on this street and it often takes multiple attempts to get the app to load. I thought I had managed this time but clearly not.

Had this gone through successfully, this would have taken me past 5:30pm, at which point I am entitled to park for free (1 hour before the parking restrictions end). I would therefore have paid nothing for the entire stay.

Is there any point appealing?

Thank you for any help.



I can't see the image loading so here is the direct link https://imgur.com/a/o577Qt5

Unfortunately google street view shows an old set up, the pay and display machine is no longer there.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iEbcHcVLqZarYV9Z9

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