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Messages - Blue Straggler

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1
Thanks, I do admire your energy and passion but in this case I'll roll over quietly, we've achieved the goal.

Related anecdote though...around 25 years ago I managed to successfully Camden Council over a PCN. This was when Camden Council were NOTORIOUS for dubious practices re: parking (e.g. installing a new sign changing parking restrictions on a street, at 4am, with no prior notice to residents, and clamping or ticketing every parked resident car with permit). I remember this one so vividly.

I parked up on a double yellow, permitted for loading/unloading for up to 15 minutes, as long as you are seen to be actually loading/unloading. Entered a building, went for a quick wee and picked up a rucksack. I was out of sight of my car for under three minutes. They managed to ticket it in that time, and I did some time trials that indicated they must have been typing the ticket as soon as I parked up, stuck it on, and literally RUN away, as I didn't see them (I had noticed them on my approach to the parking). They are supposed to observe a vehicle for 5 minutes and not ticket it until it's been unattended (re: need to actually be loading/unloading) for ten minutes. Their PCN stated vehicle observed 17:18, PCN issued 17:20. Which was the core of my successful appeal

BUT! Their letter to me saying they were cancelling the charge, stated that it was a goodwill gesture because it was MY FIRST OFFENCE!! Comedy gold.
I probably should have pursued this and insisted on disciplinary action against the wardens.

2
Many thanks b789 for all your reassurance and assistance on this. APCOA have cancelled the charge, no further action needed. What is interesting is that it states that payment WAS made on the day (the driver no longer recalls this but believes that it was one of those scenarios where VRM is entered on a system inside the premises being visited) but was recorded as being payment at a weekend/evening rate. If it was VRM then there was something wrong with the system, and if it was "pay and display" (driver may have, concerned about not having entered the VRM at time of ENTRY, decided to also pay - APCOA Pay and Display machines do offer an "after the parking" option for forgetful people) this should not have been possible. None of this was mentioned on the initial communication. But regardless, it is all dealt with now. They deny GDPR breaches. The correspondence is reasonably polite.

"Incident type   New Request
Categorisation   Customer Service Centre (UK) - UK Customer Complaints
Incident date   03/04/2025 15:37
The update   28/04/2025 04:17 PM Jason Winstanley:
Thank you for your patience whilst APCOA conducted a full investigation into the handling of your complaint and Parking Charge LU00217221. I can confirm that our investigations have been completed, and we present our findings below.

Timeline of events established during investigation:
16/01/2025 at 10:52:56 - Vehicle registration number YG12BBF was captured on ANPR cameras entering Edward Barnsley Car Park, Loughborough University.
16/01/2025 at 12:02:18 - Payment was made for Vehicle registration number YG12BBF at Edward Barnsley Car Park, Loughborough University using the Night & Weekend Tariff.
16/01/2025 at 12:05:15 - Vehicle registration number YG12BBF was captured on ANPR cameras exiting Edward Barnsley Car Park, Loughborough University.
22/01/2025 - APCOA requested registered keeper details from DVLA for vehicle registration number YG12BBF in relation to Parking Charge LU00217221.
23/01/2025 - DVLA supplied register keeper details to APCOA for vehicle registration number YG12BBF.
24/01/2025 - Parking Charge LU00217221 issued to the registered keeper via postal letter. The right to appeal offered for 28 days and Parking Discounted to £25 for a period of 14 days.
03/03/2025 - Parking Charge LU00217221 passed to Debt Recovery Plus as no contact made with APCOA by the registered keeper.
12/03/2025 - Formal complaint received from
  • (registered keeper of vehicle) and assigned the incident reference A0325-21345. Complaint related to Parking Charge LU00217221.

13/03/2025 - Complaint reviewed by Complaint Handler. complaint incorrectly catagorised and moved to email inbox for London Luton Airport Drop Off (LDO) Team by the Complaint Handler.
24/03/2025 - Response issued by APCOA's LDO Team advising that they could not locate the Parking Charge on their system. Believing that the Parking Charge reference may have been typed incorrectly, a request was made for the correct reference number.
25/03/2025 - Response received from [keeper] and case was assigned a new incident reference A0325-40547. It was confirmed in your email that the Parking Charge reference already supplied is correct and the vehicle registration numb er YG12BBF was supplied. In this email, you also stated that the Parking Charge was delivered after the 14 days outlined in POFA 2012 had expired and therefore the parking Charge was not compliant with POFA 2012.
01/04/2025 - The LDO Team discovered that the Parking Charge relates to a visit to Loughborough University and that they could not assist you any further. As a result, your complaint was passed back to the UK Complaints Team to investigate and respond.
03/04/2024 - A further complaint was received from you in regard to a GDPR/KADOE breach.
07/04/2025 - Second complaint reviewed by Complaints Handler and passed to APCOA Data Protection Office (DPO) for investigation due to alleged GDPR/KADOE breach. As complaint related to a data breach and had possible DPO implications, APCOA worked to current legislation which allows up to 1 calendar month from the date the complaint is received to investigate and respond.
25/04/2025 - DPO investigation completed and it was concluded that no data breach had occurred.
Second complaint passed to Complaints Supervisor to review, investigate and respond. Holding email issued at 14:28 by Complaints Supervisor advising that a full response will be issued to the complaint by close of business on 28/04/2025.
25/04/2025 at 17:40 - Complaint was followed by you stating that no acknowledgement had been received and a request was made for a full written acknowledgement and response.
In response to your allegations and the points raised in your multiple emails, please see below.

Regulatory Authority
I can confirm that APCOA are members of the British Parking Association (BPA) and agree to adhere to the Sector Single Code of Practice which replaced the BPA Code of Practice in June 2024 (amendments made in February 2025).

Improper assumption of keeper liability
While the V5C document does indicate that being the registered keeper is not proof of ownership in itself, there is a legal presumption that the registered keeper is the owner of the vehicle unless evidence to the contrary is provided. This is reflected in the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994, which defines an “owner” as the person by whom the vehicle is kept. In the case of a registered vehicle, this is presumed to be the person in whose name the vehicle is registered.

Accordingly, when investigating a breach of the terms and conditions of parking, and in the absence of any information suggesting otherwise, it is both reasonable and appropriate for us to correspond with the registered keeper as the presumed owner of the vehicle. Under contract law, the driver can be liable as they are present when the parking contract is both offered and accepted.

Alleged breach of KADOE
Our access to DVLA data is governed by the Keeper at Date of Event (KADOE) contract, which permits APCOA to request the registered keeper’s details for the purpose of enforcing parking terms and conditions or pursuing relevant offences.

APCOA conclude that your details were obtained legally and in-line with KADOE as we hold a legitimate interest in pursuing Parking Charge LU00217221 after vehicle registration number YG12BBF was parked in breach of the terms and conditions of use at Edward Barnsley Car Park, Loughborough University.

Parking Charge LU00217221 issuance timescales/POFA 2012
It is important to note that the Sector Single Code of Practice states that 'A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered and so “given” on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday'.

As set out in the timeline above, Parking Charge LU00217221 was issued 8 days after the date of contravention on 24/01/2025 via postal letter and was assumed as received on 28/01/2025, the second working day. In total, the Parking Charge was issued and assumed as delivered in 12 days from the date of contravention.

Alleged GDPR Breach
After a full investigation by APCOA's DPO, we can confirm that whilst your initial complaint was unnecessarily assigned to another department, this was kept within APCOA's Customer Service Centre and not shared to any offsite APCOA departments. We can also confirm that no duplicates of your personal details were created when assigning your complaint to another department. Whilst this may constitute an element of oversharing your data, this does not constitute a breach of your personal data. Your complaint in regard to this matter has been duly noted and will additional GDPR training be given to the Complaint Handler in question.

Handling of your complaint
After a full review of all emails both sent and received in relation to your complaint, I conclude that your complaint could have been handled in a more timely manner. APCOA set high standards for the dealing and resolution of all customer complaints and it appears that our handling of your complaint is below our usually high standards. As a result, an internal investigation has been launched into the manner in whcih your complaint was dealt with by the Complaints Handler. Whilst we cannot comment on internal investigations and their outcomes, rest assured that we are taking this very seriously and we will ensure that the relevant action is taken to ensure that all future complaints are handled to the standard that APCOA work to.

APCOA would like to to take this opportunity to offer our sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused over the handling of your complaint.

What led to the Parking Charge being issued to you
As set out in the timeline above, your vehicle parked at Edward Barnsley Car Park, Loughborough University for a total of 1 hour 12 minutes 19 seconds on 16/01/2024, which was a Thursday.

Whilst we appreciate that parking payment was made by you on this date, we must advise that Edward Barnsley Car Park, Loughborough University is strictly permit permit holders only between the hours of 6am and 6pm on weekdays (Monday to Friday). This is clearly stated on the the signage displayed around the site. Please see attached photographs of the signage in place at this car park for your records.

Conclusion and resolution
Due to the delayed response and resolution to your complaint, I can confirm that APCOA have cancelled Parking Charge LU00217221.

This case has been retracted from Debt Recovery Plus and will not be pursued from the date of this email. No further action is required from you and should another letter be received from Debt Recovery Plus, this does not need to be actioned. In the highly unlikely event that you receive more than one letter from Debt Recovery Plus demanding action on this case, please contact me immediately via this email trail.

Kind regards,

Jason Winstanley
Complaints & Administration Supervisor
APCOA"

3
You should send it anyway, just so as there is a "paper trail" of the complaints process.

Thanks, done. I wrote that it was 24 April, as if it had been "stuck" en route before receiving the email I quote above.

4
apologies b789, I thought I had already acknowledged / thanked you for your recent post and template. Thanks, belatedly.

For whatever reason, I didn't get around to sending your latest suggestion. Anyway today, 25 April, I received this from APCOA

"Incident type   New Request
Categorisation   Customer Service Centre (UK) - UK Customer Complaints
Incident date   03/04/2025 15:37
The update   25/04/2025 02:28 PM Jason Winstanley:
Thank you for your email dated 03/04/2025.

Due to the nature of your complaint and the fact that you allege a GDPR/KADOE breach, your complaint has been sat with APCOA's Data Protection Office (DPO) pending investigation. Their investigation has now concluded and your complaint has been assigned to me to as the Complaints Supervisor investigate the non-data related points and respond. APCOA will issue a full response to your complaint by close of business on Monday (28/04/2025).

Thank you for your continued patience.

Kind regards,

Jason Winstanley
Complaints & Administration Supervisor
APCOA"

5
"On 3rd April I emailed a version of b789's suggested complaint letter to ukcustomercomplaints@apcoa.com with myself and complaints.lutondropoff@apcoa.com in cc."

"the PPSCoP states:

11.3. A complaint must be acknowledged by the parking operator within 14 days of its receipt unless exceptional circumstances apply, in which case the complainant must be kept informed by the operator.
NOTE: For a small operator there might from time to time be limited administrative capacity to handle communications, e.g. due to staff sickness."

It is now the end of the day on 18 April and there has been no response to my correspondence to apcoa on 3 April. Is it 14 WORKING days, that "deadline"?

6
Thanks again. Added correct VRM as a comment in the DVLA case, yesterday (Sunday 13 April)

7
Just an update on this. On 3rd April I emailed a version of b789's suggested complaint letter to ukcustomercomplaints@apcoa.com with myself and complaints.lutondropoff@apcoa.com in cc.
I had received a second letter from "Debt Recovery Plus" on 24 March with all the usual "threatening" appearances. I am merrily ignoring this and have never contacted Debt Recovery Plus. It essentially says they are advising their client, APCOA, to "begin legal recovery"

I have had no response from apcoa yet.
I also sent the suggested complaint to DVLA using their online form. They did reply, and quoted the wrong registration number, possibly I had put a typo in (I actually can't see my original post to them on my account at DVLA). I will add the correct registration as a comment on my case.

Quietly wondering "what happens next".
Are APCOA in the habit of quietly burying these things without acknowledgement?

I am aware that my "worst case scenario" is the £120 plus court fees for a total £235 and potential CCJ. I am in a privileged position whereby this is all affordable (no concerns about the Debt Recovery Plus threats of being unable to get a mortgage etc) and am also aware that it's unlikely to come to that.... but just wondering what the timeline is and what to expect. I know every case will be different though!

8
Thanks! My post wasn't clear on a couple of points so I'll amend your text slightly (only minor points of pedantry):

the second reply that was clearly from complaints.lutondropoff@apcoa.com seems automated and doesn't indicate any "taken further", yet.
The term "incorrect format" is from me, so I'll avoid appearing to quote them on that.


Great work, I'll put this into action.

9
Not sure how it has ended up with Luton Airport! I originally sent to ukcustomercomplaints@apcoa.com, all replies are from :
complaints.lutondropoff@apcoa.com
 probably due to the LU at the start of the NtK (Loughborough University initials....)




"Thank you for contacting the London Luton Airport Express Drop Off Customer Complaints Team. This response provides the unique reference number for your enquiry, to enable you to track our communications please reply to emails with this reference number.

If your complaint relates specifically to a Parking Charge (PC), please write to the parking appeals address on the reverse of the Parking Charge. Our UK Customer Complaints Team is unable to process any Parking Charge appeals.

Please note that in order to assist with your complaint more effectively, we are required to identify the vehicle that your enquiry relates to. If you have not already done so, please provide the relevant vehicle registration number to your enquiry by replying to this email.

We endeavour to respond to all customer complaints in 14 working days.  However, if we are unable to resolve a complaint within 28 days (due to the nature of your complaint), we will write to you to advise you of our progress.  Please ensure you have included your relevant contact information to enable us to successfully respond to you.

All complaints are dealt with in accordance with the requirements of the Data Protection Act 2018.

You can request a copy of our UK Customer Complaints Policy and Procedure online at www.apcoa.co.uk/faqs.

Thank you.
 
Incident number   A0325-40547
Incident date   25/03/2025 12:03
Your request   25/03/2025 12:03 PM CSC Mail Import - LLA EDO Complaints:
Sender:
Date sent: Mar 25, 2025 12:03 PM
To: "complaints.lutondropoff@apcoa.com" <complaints.lutondropoff@apcoa.com>
Subject: Re: A0325-21345 - Update - Formal letter of complaint: LU00217221

[EXTERNAL EMAIL: Unless you know the content is safe, do not click links or open attachments]


Hi. LU00217221 is exactly what is printed on the PCN and subsequently a communication from Debt Recovery Plus. Adding to the objection to the PCN, although is states an ISSUE date of 24 Jan, it was not delivered (i.e. received) until AFTER 30 January, later than the 14 days requirement under PoFa.
The registration is YG12 BBF

regards[my name]

On Monday 24 March 2025 at 16:22:45 GMT, <complaints.lutondropoff@apcoa.com> wrote:


[https://apcoa.topdesk.net/emaillogo]

A0325-21345

Dear Sir/Madam,

Please see the below update to your request.

Incident type   New Request
Categorisation   Customer Service Centre (UK) - UK Customer Complaints
Incident date   12/03/2025 14:05

The update   24/03/2025 04:22 PM Stephanie Semple:
Good afternoon,

Thank you for contacting Luton Express Drop Off Complaints Department.

We acknowledge your complaint, however we are unable to locate Parking Charge 'LU00217221' on our records therefore are unable to take any action relating to this currently.

Please note that the Parking Charge number will begin with 'LU' followed by seven numbers, and this is located on correspondence you have received relating to this charge. We can also locate the Parking Charge with your vehicle registration if you are able to provide this. Once we have this information, we would then be able to assist further with your complaint.

Yours sincerely,
Stephanie Semple

Original request   12/03/2025 02:05 PM CSC Mail import - CSC UK Complaints:
Sender:
Date sent: Mar 12, 2025 2:05 PM
To: "ukcustomercomplaints@apcoa.com" <ukcustomercomplaints@apcoa.com>
Subject: Formal letter of complaint: LU00217221

[EXTERNAL EMAIL: Unless you know the content is safe, do not click links or open attachments]


Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to formally complain about APCOA's allegation unpaid parking charge referenced by Debt Recovery Plus as LU00217221.

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

regards
[my name]"

10
Little update. I have not heard anything from Debt Recovery Plus (I have not contacted them). APCOA replied to my complaint by email (sent 12 March as a copy-paste of the text quoted by b789)  on 25 March and said that the reference number I quoted was in the incorrect format as it should be LU and then 7 digits, not 8. I replied to confirm that I had quoted this EXACTLY as printed on correspondence in the initial NtK and from Debt Recovery Plus, and added that further PoFa incompliance is reflected in the fact that the NtK was not received/delivered in time, regardless of the claimed date of "issue". Perhaps ill-advisedly I also stated the registration plate which they had requested/suggested when stating that the reference number was incorrect.

12
Sorry! Here it is

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

13
Date of contravention 16 January, date of ISSUE of PCN 24 January. I do not know when I received it, there is no date information on the envelope.

14
Hi, NtK attached

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

15
Unfortunately for me, I have just checked through a pile of my mail (a sanity check whilst drafting a formal letter of complaint) and in fact APCOA did send a PCN on 24 January 2025 which I managed to overlook. So it's entirely my fault....
I await a reply from the pool's duty manager as to whether it can be overturned. Annoyingly I have learned now that APCOA has a "late payment" option which I could have used

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