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Messages - Johnsmith86

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1
You cannot make formal representations until a NTO has been served.

For info, this is the full enforcement process: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process

Noted.

I will revert once I have received the NTO

2
The key parts of the quoted decision is that the edge of the carriageway can be construed as being a barrier, this being the case then the first limb of the contravention in your case fails and the contravention did not occur. The adjudicator also clarified the issue 'not in a parking place' which is not how Westminster interpret matters.

Mr Rowling is an idiot. If the vehicle is not more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway then consideration as to whether there's a parking space is irrelevant: were they to use the same reasoning in any formal rejection would IMO be grounds for procedural impropriety as well, not that you'd* need this!

IMO, wait for the NTO. Are you the registered keeper?

Yes I am the registered keeper.

So I should not bother with a formal challenge and wait for the NTO?

3
Hi


As expected the appeal has been rejected (see below):

https://ibb.co/5W2mCYSz



In terms of the next steps, do I go ahead and proceed with a formal representation based on the same argument and should I quote the adjudicator case (2240321907) mentioned in Stamford man's post?


Thanks

4
Ok noted.

I have removed the cited case from the appeal and submited it to the Council.

I will revert once I hear back.
This case won by our admin is better but as I said we don't usually cite cases at informal challenge stage as it's too confrontational and also makes a challenge too formal.

--------------

Case reference 2240321907
Appellant xxxxxx
Authority London Borough of Newham
VRM DX16 UDN
PCN Details
PCN PN37747431
Contravention date 14 Jan 2024
Contravention time 05:00:00
Contravention location Gallions Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Parked more than 50 cm from edge of carriageway
Referral date -
Decision Date 02 Nov 2024
Adjudicator Belinda Pearce
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.

Reasons
As a result of a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement, sworn by the Appellant at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, an Order was made by Northampton County Court cancelling the Charge Certificate but not the original Penalty Charge Notice.

It falls to me now to determine this matter on the evidence presently before me, adduced by both parties.

A Telephone Appeal Hearing was scheduled for 9 a.m. today, 2nd November 2024; I spoke with the

Appellant's representative, Mr I. Murray-Smith on the contact number provided.

1. The Enforcement Authority assert the whereabouts of the said vehicle at the relevant time on the material date, to have been parked otherwise than within 50 centimetres of the edge of the carriageway and not within a designated parking space.

2. The Appellant denies liability for the ensuing Penalty Charge Notice on the basis of his challenge as initially stated and subsequently comprehensively set out in the Skeleton Argument submitted by Mr Murray-Smith, which challenge Mr Murray-Smith reiterated and further detailed during the Telephone Hearing.

3. The Enforcement Authority who assert that the said vehicle was so parked contrary to the operative restriction are obliged to adduce evidence to the requisite standard to substantiate that assertion:-

The evidence upon which the Enforcement Authority rely comprises copy Penalty Charge Notice, contemporaneous notes attributable to the Civil Enforcement Officer together with contemporaneous photographic evidence: 5 images showing the said vehicle in situ, unoccupied and unattended.

4. The evidence adduced by the Enforcement Authority was examined to evaluate the allegation in conjunction with the representations advanced on the Appellant's behalf.

The contemporaneous photographic capture reveals the said vehicle positioned adjacent to a metal fence, behind which there appears to be no viability of public (pedestrian or vehicular egress); no designated parking space demarcation is discernible.

5. Neither limb of the allegation (both elements of which are requisite by virtue of the use of the conjunction 'and') is evident; the contravention is not proved.

The evidential burden does not pass to an Appellant unless and until that evidential burden is discharged satisfactorily by the Enforcement Authority.

Evidentially I cannot find the alleged contravention occurred.

This Appeal is Allowed.

5
Here is my draft appeal:

I am appealing this PCN based on the below:
1)   The contravention did NOT occur
The CEOs pictures show metal barriers to the right of my vehicle, it is clear that Westminster Council have treated the metal barriers as the edge of the carriageway for at least 5 years (as per Google Street View).
Therefore, if the ‘de facto’ limit of the carriageway is the metal barriers then a motorist should be able to consider the metal barriers to be the ‘de jure’ edge of the carriageway. The CEOs pictures show my vehicle was parked less than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway and that there are no lines drawn designating parking spaces, hence no contravention has occurred.
I refer you to the below extract from tribunal case number 2240189683:
"The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was parked more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway and not within a designated parking place when in Snowshill Road on 10 December 2023 at 14.32.
The Appellant denies the contravention.
I have considered the evidence in this case and I find that the Authority has not proved that the Appellant's vehicle was parked more that 50cm from the edge of the carriageway.
The reason being that I find that the Appellant's vehicle was parked in a car park where there is no carriageway.
The appeal is allowed."
2)   Boarding/alighting is exempted in the London Councils handbook and referenced in Westminster councils' policies when assessing a Code 26 contravention
Code 26 primarily reflects legislation designed to stop double parking but enforcement can't rule out double parking briefly to unload/alight if there are no other parking places available.
In this case I was collecting my two young children from maths class and this was the safest location I could find for my children to board the vehicle. My youngest child needed to use the toilet as he was boarding hence, I took him to the toilet across the road in the hotel.
I request that you give this matter a fresh and impartial consideration. I’m sure you will see that the evidence unequivocally demonstrates that no contravention has occurred and will therefore cancel this Parking Charge.

6
In my case the CEO did not see any evidence of boarding/alighting hence instant PCN was issued as per Westminster's policy.

The question is do I amend my appeal to include the exemption for boarding/alighting of passengers or no point?

7
How does this look for an appeal:

I am appealing this PCN on the basis that the contravention did not occur.

The CEOs pictures show metal barriers to the right of my car, it appears that Westminster Council have treated the metal barriers as the edge of the carriageway for at least 5 years (as per Google Street View).

Therefore, if the de facto limit of the carriageway is the metal barriers then a motorist should be able to consider the barrier to be the de jure edge of the carriageway. In conclusion, my car was parked less than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway and that there are no lines drawn designating parking spaces hence no contravention has occurred.

I refer you to the below extract from tribunal case number 2240189683:

"The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was parked more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway and not within a designated parking place when in Snowshill Road on 10 December 2023 at 14.32.

The Appellant denies the contravention.

I have considered the evidence in this case and I find that the Authority has not proved that the Appellant's vehicle was parked more that 50cm from the edge of the carriageway.

The reason being that I find that the Appellant's vehicle was parked in a car park where there is no carriageway.

The appeal is allowed."

I request that you give this matter a fresh and impartial consideration. I’m sure you will see that the evidence unequivocally demonstrates that no contravention has occurred and will therefore cancel this Parking Charge.

8
Thanks for the input.

So if I understood correctly, I am challenging on the basis that the contravention did not occur bec I am parked less than 50cm away from the edge of the carriageway (i.e. the barriers in this case) ?

9
Kids 7 & 8, I was picking them up from a maths lesson.

Are the council allowed to treat the railings as a kerb, shouldn't there be a sign or lines of some sort?

10
Kids 7 & 8, I was picking them up from a maths lesson.

Are the council allowed to treat the railings as a kerb, shouldn't there be a sign or lones if some sort?

11
Thanks for the response.

The reason I took around 10 mins to collect my kids was that as I arrived my youngest needed to use the toilet so I had to take him to the closest coffee shop I could find.

Please see copy of PCN below and google maps location:

https://ibb.co/HpKR61GG

https://ibb.co/HDRSW0rQ

https://maps.app.goo.gl/cKh9jzjPywKqH6y16

Many thanks

12
Unfortunately I have received a PCN for the above alleged contravention code 26 from Westminster council. I stopped for approx. 10 mins to pick up my children as couldn't find anywhere else to park. It was getting dark and I honestly had no idea that you couldn't park there plus I did not see any signings prohibiting parking.

I know this is probably a long shot but can anyone help me find any grounds for appeal from the PCN or photos?

Many thanks

https://pasteboard.co/NslCNzswYqQi.jpg

13
Any feedback from the forum regarding next steps?

Thanks,

14
In which case I'd reorder and rephrase your informal reps.

Surely you're trying to set out a compelling argument for the authority to exercise discretion(could be 'circumstances beyond your control...but I'm not going to get too exercised about the distinction), therefore perhaps....

On *** my son, aged **, developed a temperature and therefore I went to the (surely local, although you've said that you're not a resident of Richmond) pharmacy to buy some ***** (IMO, medicine is too vague). I parked as can be seen and saw the CEO to whom I explained the situation and who KINDLY! allowed me to park for 5 minutes without paying.

As luck would have it, **** pharmacy could not accept card payments and therefore as I did not have cash on me I had to go to the nearest ATM and then return to the pharmacy. This detour caused me to be late getting back to my car where I found the PCN, perhaps understandably.

Given the circumstances, I would ask the authority to exercise discretion on this occasion. I would also suggest that the actual wording of the contravention cannot be correct in that the parking place accepts phone payment and therefore not displaying something whose display is optional cannot be correct, surely. Likewise the sign doesn't reflect the option to pay by phone, but I hope that it won't be necessary to examine these issues in further detail in this case.

Some thoughts. Pl fill in the blanks and post a draft here first.

Hello,

Unfortunately the council did not show any compassion and have rejected my appeal. Is this now worth waiting for the NTO to arrive and then make formal representations?

Appreciate your guidance

Many thanks,

15
On 15/09/2025 my son, aged 6 yrs old, developed a high temperature and therefore I went to the Richmond Pharmacy on Sheen Road to buy some Calpol medicine for him. I parked on Sheen Road, as can be seen, and saw the CEO to whom I explained the situation and who kindly allowed me to park for 5 minutes without paying for parking.

As luck would have it, Richmond Pharmacy could not accept card payments and therefore as I did not have cash on me I had to go to the nearest ATM at the garage on Sheen Road and then return to the pharmacy. This de-tour caused me to be late getting back to my car where I found the PCN has been issued, perhaps understandably.

Given the circumstances, I kindly ask the authority to exercise discretion on this occasion. I would also like to suggest that the actual wording of the contravention cannot be correct in that the parking bay accepts phone payments as well as machine payments and therefore not displaying something (i.e. ticket/voucher) whose display is optional cannot be correct, surely. Likewise the parking sign doesn't reflect the option to pay by phone, but I hope that it won't be necessary to examine these issues in further detail in this case.

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