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Messages - Hcpzresident

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Harrow Council PCN. Single Yellow Line in CPZ. No Signage.
« on: January 20, 2025, 05:17:56 pm »
Quote from: stamfordman on January 20, 2025, 03:43:40 pm
You have to wait for the notice to owner to make formal reps.

Are you the keeper and if so is the V5C logbook address correct.

Yes, I am the keeper. I'll be waiting to receive the Notice to Owner. The V5C address is not correct yet, since I only just moved and still have to update it with the DVLA. I do have access to the address on the logbook so I will still receive all correspondence. Do you have any idea how long it takes to receive the Notice to Owner after the informal appeal rejection? Will I need to contact them if I haven't heard anything by a certain date?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Harrow Council PCN. Single Yellow Line in CPZ. No Signage.
« on: January 20, 2025, 03:15:44 pm »
Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to give me advice. I think the consensus is to confirm that I was indeed loading the car. I will also mention the lack of CPZ signage, as that was why I had even decided to just leave the car temporarily on the single yellow whilst I grabbed the boxes to get on the road for a break over Christmas.

If anyone else has any further advice then I would appreciate that too. I've never had a PCN or any other notice in my 16+ years of driving a car, so this is all a bit frustrating.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Harrow Council PCN. Single Yellow Line in CPZ. No Signage.
« on: January 20, 2025, 03:10:53 pm »
Quote from: mickR on January 20, 2025, 11:10:47 am
can you get evidence of collecting the parcels?

Annoyingly, I had a doorbell camera but it hadn't yet been installed so I have no evidence of the loading.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Harrow Council PCN. Single Yellow Line in CPZ. No Signage.
« on: January 20, 2025, 03:09:11 pm »
Quote from: John U.K. on January 20, 2025, 09:47:02 am
Quote
Three boxes (they were Christmas presents). One was a Henry vacuum so it was quite large, the other two were medium size and could be carried at the same time. I was parked around six houses away from my own as there was no suitable single yellow or bay outside my own house. I didn't leave my car open so no 'loading activity' was visible but this was because I was parked too far from home to do this safely.

I would have thought this was sufficient to qualify for the loading defence, but you may well end up needing to convince at Tribunal.
See what others say.

Was it here
https://maps.app.goo.gl/NHRiyUmrAfpxvRHJ9

outside 14 or as per PCN opposite 14?

Yes, as per the PCN. It was directly outside number 13 on the single yellow line just to the left (when looking at the house) and I was not blocking the dropped kerb.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Harrow Council PCN. Single Yellow Line in CPZ. No Signage.
« on: January 20, 2025, 08:54:06 am »
Quote from: Incandescent on January 20, 2025, 01:26:44 am
Quote from: Hcpzresident on January 20, 2025, 01:17:42 am
I lived in Hammersmith before!

The PCN was issued on Greenhill Road around number 14. There are no signs on the road mentioning times for the single yellow lines or anything else but they do mention that parking in the bays is for those with D permits (I have a permit).

I always take the same route to get to Greenhill Road by entering at Hindes Road, then continuing on to Welldon Crescent then finally Greenhill Road. I walked to the junction where Elmgrove Road meets Hindes Road (the supposed boundary for zone D CPZ), and there is no signage at all mentioning a CPZ or anything else for that matter!
CPZs control the single-yellow line times and days within the zone, (double-yellows apply 24x7 so need no sign). If a sign is missing when you enter the zone then this is grounds for cancellation of the PCN. So if you see no signs at the zone boundary, are you willing to stand your ground and wait for the Notice to Owner ? This means the full PCN penalty would be in play, although they may re-offer it to save them the PITA of you taking them to London Tribunals.  I would suggest you need to do some legwork on your normal approach to your residence to check on the signs, as GSV may well be out-of-date.

I am willing to stand my ground if the lack of signage means the PCN is likely to be cancelled. I am absolutely certain there are no signs denoting the CPZ. I took many pictures and videos of the street as evidence for when I initially appealed.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Harrow Council PCN. Single Yellow Line in CPZ. No Signage.
« on: January 20, 2025, 08:51:42 am »
Quote from: John U.K. on January 20, 2025, 02:11:16 am
Quote
Just moved to the area and parked on a single yellow line for a few mins on a Saturday believing it was outside of the operating hours whilst I went to grab some boxes to put in the car before leaving. I was likely waiting there for 7 or 8 mins. I received a PCN from the council and made an informal appeal which they rejected on the basis that I was parked in a CPZ however, there is no signage whatsoever to indicate that the area is a CPZ.

Please tell us more about the boxes - size, number, distance from house etc. - as you may be able to claim the loading exemption.

Three boxes (they were Christmas presents). One was a Henry vacuum so it was quite large, the other two were medium size and could be carried at the same time. I was parked around six houses away from my own as there was no suitable single yellow or bay outside my own house. I didn't leave my car open so no 'loading activity' was visible but this was because I was parked too far from home to do this safely.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Harrow Council PCN. Single Yellow Line in CPZ. No Signage.
« on: January 20, 2025, 01:17:42 am »
I lived in Hammersmith before!

The PCN was issued on Greenhill Road around number 14. There are no signs on the road mentioning times for the single yellow lines or anything else but they do mention that parking in the bays is for those with D permits (I have a permit).

I always take the same route to get to Greenhill Road by entering at Hindes Road, then continuing on to Welldon Crescent then finally Greenhill Road. I walked to the junction where Elmgrove Road meets Hindes Road (the supposed boundary for zone D CPZ), and there is no signage at all mentioning a CPZ or anything else for that matter!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Harrow Council PCN. Single Yellow Line in CPZ. No Signage.
« on: January 19, 2025, 11:31:10 pm »
Just moved to the area and parked on a single yellow line for a few mins on a Saturday believing it was outside of the operating hours whilst I went to grab some boxes to put in the car before leaving. I was likely waiting there for 7 or 8 mins. I received a PCN from the council and made an informal appeal which they rejected on the basis that I was parked in a CPZ however, there is no signage whatsoever to indicate that the area is a CPZ.

I appealed on the grounds that I was there for only a short while and that the CPZ signage is completely missing and therefore the operating hours of the zone could not have been known. I did not know about the existence of this website or would have come here first before the appeal.

There are no signs on the street or on entering to indicate that the area is a CPZ, on either the boundary street between zones (Elmgrove Road) or the street I use to enter the zone (Hindes Road), which is why I incorrectly assumed the lines were Monday-Friday. The information on each zone can only be found on a cumbersome to use online map.

Is it worth making a formal appeal after the receipt of the Notice to Owner? How likely is it this might end in my favour based on the inadequate/nonexistent signage?







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