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Messages - sammiefields2512

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4
The post on which the sign hangs is placed at the back of the footway, IMO clearly visible if you are standing on the footway and even if just paying lip service to a driver's obligations to look for a sign.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/AdF1vgxz2vi3CDww7

But the restriction is new(post August 2025), so can you get clear photos of the parking place markings(which trigger a driver's obligation) and whether this is a stand-alone bay or adjoins others. A view from the Royal Mail side giving a landscape view would be useful.

And the 14-day risk-free period for submitting reps ends on 26th.

Thank you for your response. It is not a stand-alone bay, there are at least 3 joined bays, my car was parked in the middle bay. I live about a 20 minute drive away from the area, I'm not sure I'll be able to make it there to take more pics before the deadline on the 26th, but I'll try.

5
Please post a GSV link to the exact location, please.

Google Streetview Link:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZNHgzxGP19xzceSa8

The signage and bays were not present when the Streetview pics were taken. My car was parked next to the drawing on the bicycle on the black wall to the right.

6
Hi,

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle. The driver parked in a parking bay for a short while, it was night time, so they expected it was free.

There was a tree in the way of the signage, though the driver admits that if they looked harder they would have seen it.

I wonder if I could argue the following:

1. Obscured Signage

The signage is positioned directly behind a thick tree trunk and obscured by its lower leafy canopy. At 10:00 PM in the dark, it is practically invisible to an arriving driver. The CEO's own image of the signage is blurry.

2. Inadequate Consideration Time

The PCN states the vehicle was observed only from 22:01 to 22:03.

Because the sign was hidden behind a tree, a driver would need more than 120 seconds just to locate the pole in the dark and process the dual-restriction text on the signage (which switches rules at 5:30 PM). The driver was ticketed before they had a fair chance to read the obscured rules and leave.

(Sorry, can't get Google Drive images to show for some reason, please follow the links to view the images on Google Drive)

My Images:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Xic5YvKb2-ljJEJuRsqMQISjUhrOdtaF?usp=drive_link

Parking Officer's images:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ANqGLSN_NpByNcCvOYp1uikgvl63R_Bs?usp=drive_link

Google Streetview Link:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZNHgzxGP19xzceSa8

7
APPEAL ALLOWED!!!!

Thank you so much everyone who chimed in and helped me on this.

I had this whole 5 minute presentation ready with all of my points.

The adjudicator asked me for my main point briefly, I mentioned it was that the signage was inadequate, far away etc. She got me to look at the picture with the rear view of my car and the white van in front, and asked me where in relation to that the signage was. I told her it was beyond the white van and behind the tree. She told me just based on that, the PCN shouldn't have been issued, and she will allow the appeal.

https://imgpile.com/p/DkO8sJ3#D3Xx48r

She did add that my argument that the car should have been relocated, would not have held up. I told her I won't argue with her since she has allowed the appeal.

8
Dammit, just received the evidence pack from Tower Hamlets this afternoon.

https://imgpile.com/p/atVt9Qk#scAIxr5
https://imgpile.com/p/atVt9Qk#a0fATen

The date on the pack is "24 February 2026", according to the envelope it was sent via first class, so I received it 4 days later. Now I have 2.5 days to read it. On the tribunal website, they uploaded their evidence on the 24th of February.

Do I have to consider what they sent? Or can I claim it was sent too late?

Here's a redacted version of the evidence:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1A5opvRGbB6_wM5ZaImZLYrsAPxg5wsMz?usp=sharing

Probably not important, but in page 2 of file B, they got the surname of the appellant wrong, not just a typo but a completely different name.


9
The hearing is on the 3rd of March, that's 4 days away. I have not yet received any evidence in the post.

According to this link the tribunal sent me:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/environment-and-traffic-adjudicators-your-microsoft-teams-appeal

"The Enforcement Authority should send you a copy of its evidence at least three days before the hearing."

Though in the practice direction it says:

"The Chief Adjudicator has directed that authorities must serve their evidence no later than five days before the first scheduled date of hearing of the appeal... The five days take into account weekends and Bank holidays."

If I don't receive it by Sunday, I'll say that this breaches the tribunal direction of receiving the evidence pack at least 3 or ?5 days before the hearing.

In another thread:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/redbridge-council-parking-ticket/45/

... Stamfordman listed a couple of allowed appeals (2250338371 and 2250295803) based on not receiving the evidence pack on time, they were from Redbridge though, mine is Tower Hamlets, can I still use these? If so, do I need to familiarise myself with the details of these appeals? If so, where do I access them?

I'd much appreciate any extra input/advice you can give me before my hearing date, which is the 3rd of March 2026.

10
Hey all, it's February! Hearing date: 3rd March 2026.

I have not received an evidence pack yet.

From reading through H C Andersen's link to a recent hearing, it seems I should do the following:

- Wait for evidence pack.
- If evidence pack arrives, post it here and work on my counter-argument
- If evidence pack doesn't arrive 5 days before the hearing date, then ask the adjudicator to allow my appeal, and prior to the hearing prepare a verbal summary of my reasons behind the appeal.

Is there anything else I should be doing?


11
H C Andersen, thanks, I'll check that post out.

stamfordman, I don't know, only thing I can think of, is that my availability time of 10am to 2pm Monday to Saturday, was a bit restrictive, so maybe that's the soonest date they had available to match those times.

12
I got my tribunal hearing date:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JAS_LKNqWUlmd24CXiOc_60kCpNnny3g/view?usp=sharing

It's on the 3rd of March 2026, 12:15pm, on Microsoft Teams video conferencing platform.

I've never attended one of these before. Any tips/advice would be much appreciated.

If I don't hear from anybody, I'll just attend and do my best to support the written arguments I sent.


13
H C Andersen, thank you for your prompt input, much appreciated.

Here's the tribunal application I submitted:

https://imgpile.com/p/n4H8c9y#4GkQZJH

Since the following picture shows 2 plates, I didn't mention about a single plate, but none of the pics still show 3 plates.

https://imgpile.com/p/OCQcns6

Here's the text I entered:

Quote
I appeal on three grounds: (1) The contravention did not occur; (2) The penalty/other charge paid to have the vehicle released exceeded the amount applicable; (3) Procedural impropriety.

1) Contravention did not occur – inadequate / unclear signage at my position.
This was a long residents’ bay (≈30 m). On the removal date there was a single suspension sign at the far end of the bay, ≈27 m from my space; there was no sign near my vehicle and the permanent bay plate above the suspension plate remained visible. I did not see any indication that the space I used was suspended. The authority says its suspension signs are three-sided and DfT-authorised, but its photographs do not show a compliant three-sided unit with side arms. That raises serious doubt that a compliant sign was actually displayed, which would explain why no suspension was apparent from where I parked. In a long bay, with no three-sided unit with side arms and an uncovered permanent plate do not adequately convey that my specific position is suspended.

2) Penalty/other charge exceeded the amount applicable – removal/storage not applicable if relocation should have been used.
The Notice of Rejection (NoR) asserts the suspension sign was erected 04/08/2025 at 11:25 and that my VRM was not on the “already present” list. However, the authority has not produced the suspension-**** log, the vehicle-presence/VRM list, or **** photos. Its own Removal & Relocation Policy for contravention 21 requires that any vehicle recorded as present when the notices were erected must be relocated to the nearest lawful bay (not taken to the pound). If, on proper disclosure, the records show my vehicle was already present, the removal/storage charges were not applicable and must be refunded. If the authority cannot prove its assertion, the same conclusion follows: it has not discharged the burden to justify removal charges.

3) Procedural impropriety.
(a) Failure to consider: my formal reps raised the number/positioning of signs over a 30 m bay, the uncovered permanent plate, and the relocation-only policy. The NoR replies with bare assertions (including the 04/08/25 11:25 claim and “vehicle not on list”) but no supporting records and no engagement with the adequacy of signing at my position.
(b) Failure to disclose key documents reasonably requested and central to its case: the suspension **** log (with times/locations/photos and extent diagram), any VRM list, CEO photos and notes, the removal job sheet, the Traffic Order/TTRO/works authorisation, any DfT authorisation relied on, and the policy/decision record explaining why removal (not relocation) was used. The authority’s refusal/failure to provide these constitutes procedural unfairness.

Remedy sought.
Allow the appeal, cancel the PCN and direct a refund of £415 (PCN £80 + removal £280 + storage £55). In the alternative, please issue a direction requiring the authority to produce the items listed above; if it cannot produce them, draw an adverse inference and allow the appeal.

I will upload: PCN (front/back), pound receipt (£415), photo showing the single sign at the far end of the bay, my correspondence requesting disclosure, and the NoR. I reserve the right to file a fuller submission once the authority serves its evidence.

14
Sorry for the late response, I had some personal issues I had to deal with.

I know it's last minute, but I'd like to be able to put together an appeal.

Tower Hamlets sent me a hard copy of the same letter in the post:

https://imgpile.com/p/gDqwZpN#UabiD6v

it looks like they've not responded to all the points and certainly haven't provided the sign log.

This is correct.

They say they put the sign up at 11:25 on 4 August. Have you got any idea of your car movements before or after this?

I said earlier, that from my bank expenses, my last expense on the car that indicates I would have moved it, was when I fuelled up on the 29th of July. Then I bought my new car on the 31st of July, and I don't have any recollection of having used the old car after that. It's unlikely that I would have used it after the 4th of August, but I can't verify this.

Presumably what you've posted was attached to an email, yes?.

Correct

I suggest you do not register yet but instead respond to the NoR and ask for a copy of the council's policy regarding removing vehicles, to which you referred in your representations and expected to be attached to any rejection. This is required to be provided in time for you to consider the grounds of any appeal to the adjudicator.

The email I received was from a "noreply" email address, would it be best to send a physical letter (via recorded delivery) to the address on the NoR letter? When I previously emailed tickets@towerhamlets.gov.uk, I got an auto reply that said, "This mailbox will only accept formal representations for vehicle removals."

Since it's close to the deadline, I'll send the Tower Hamlets letter/email and do the tribunal appeal at the same time.

For the tribunal appeal, it says in the NoR:

Quote
If you wish to appeal then you may do so online at https://londontribunals.org.uk. Your
verification code for the appeal is 81I592 and you will need to input this in order to appeal. If you are unable to appeal online then you can contact the Council's enquiries line on 020 7364
5000 to request a hard copy of the Appeal Form.

If I call that number and request a hard copy, might I get an extension for the appeal?

Here's what ChatGPT recommends I send to Tower Hamlets:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16rXMG1bq6dKpL-orPiekolar3zhxrjI5/view?usp=sharing

Here's what ChatGPT recommends I include in my tribunal appeal:

https://imgpile.com/p/gDqwZpN#I970fZB

Any input will be much appreciated.

15
Just got my Notice of Rejection today:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11WGNpFyDQVXrIG9n41JyuFHGDilXRA2p/view?usp=drive_link

Here's my original appeal:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hkMJsOgg4r4l6bHAYUzxdDevxd6omz2W/view?usp=sharing

Apparently the car was not there when they put the signs up:

"Our suspension record shows your vehicle was not in the bay prior to the suspension sign was put in place on 04/08/25 at 11:25."

Should I ask for evidence for this?

Do you think it's worth appealing this to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators?

Thanks.

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