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Messages - gooly

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I had my tribunal yesterday. I attended over video call and presented my case stating that the signage was inadequate. The appeal was allowed on this basis. Please find the full summary below - I hope this is helpful for anyone else who gets caught out by this restriction.

Introduction


1. This appeal concerns a Penalty Charge Notice issued for failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle on Upper Ground. The appeal was determined following a personal hearing on Micorsoft Teams, the Appellant attended.

Appellant’s Case


2. The Appellant submits that the restriction is not adequately signed. It is said that the junction layout is confusing, that there was no sufficient warning when turning from the National Theatre access road, and that the prohibition signs are small, poorly positioned and easily obscured.

3. The Appellant further relies on an alleged discrepancy between the discount period stated on the PCN and that shown on the Authority’s online portal.

Enforcement Authority’s Case


4. The Enforcement Authority relies on CCTV footage and photographs showing the vehicle passing the no motor vehicles signs. It relies on the relevant Traffic Management Order (“the TMO”), which prohibits motor vehicles from proceeding beyond the junction. Article 8 of the TMO prohibits motor vehicles from entering or proceeding beyond the restriction.

5. The Enforcement Authority submits that the signage is compliant with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 and is clearly visible.


Findings and Conclusion


6. I am satisfied from the CCTV evidence that the Appellant’s vehicle passed the prohibition signs. The issue in this case is whether the restriction was adequately conveyed to a motorist executing the manoeuvre shown on the evidence.


7. I accept the Appellant’s evidence that, having approached from the west and encountered the restriction ahead, the driver turned into the National Theatre access road in order to turn around and return.


8. The CCTV shows that, upon re-emerging from that access road, the vehicle immediately re-enters Upper Ground at or very close to the point of restriction. I am not satisfied that there is any adequate advance warning to a motorist in that position that the return route is also subject to a prohibition.


9. While the prohibition signs are present at the restriction point, signage must be considered in its totality. This includes whether a motorist is given sufficient opportunity, in advance of committing to a manoeuvre, to appreciate and comply with the restriction.

10. I have considered the decisions referred to by the Appellant. However, each appeal turns on its own facts. My decision is based on the evidence in this case. In the particular circumstances of this case, I am not satisfied that a reasonably diligent motorist, having turned around as described, would be given adequate notice of the prohibition before entering it.


11. I have considered the Enforcement Authority’s evidence but it does not satisfy me that the restriction is sufficiently clearly signed for this specific manoeuvre.


Decision


12. The appeal is allowed.

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Video does show you turning right.



Yes absolutely. I suppose I am wondering if there are any grounds for appeal despite this - either due to poor signage or procedural improprieties relating to payment dates, as Hippocrates previously achieved on a Lambeth PCN.

3
It's virtually a deliberate trap, isn't it ? The only possible approach is from under the bridge, and this sign is there:-
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SG3acMnGEHUPeRrm6
Essentially, the only place you can get to is the car park but this is blocked-off with bollards. So you have to turn right and go up the ramp to Waterloo Bridge Road: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2RNgCPkenTdqayym8
then where you go only God can help you !

So why were you driving along Upper Ground ? Following an out-of-date satnav maybe ?

I approached from Waterloo Bridge down to Upper Ground to find parking, as there used to be P&D bays on there. I turned right onto Upper Ground, drove under the bridge, saw that Upper Ground eastbound was now blocked off with the no motor vehicles sign.

I then reversed into the National Theatre car park approach to turn around. The thought did not enter my head that I would have driven through a one way no motor vehicle sign. I completed the three point turn, completely missed the signs and drove back the way I came.

The last time I drove on Upper Ground, it was an unrestricted, two-way road with a fair few P&D bays. I personally think the signage is inadequate. The sign showing the road layout under the bridge doesn't actually show the sign I went through, as it is in the opposing direction to that sign, so the only way to catch it is to spot the signs as you are turning right out of National Theatre.

4
Hi everyone!

Hope you are all keeping well, and as always thank you for taking the time out of your day to help others with their PCNs.

I've been sent a PCN from Lambeth for passing through a no motor vehicles sign at Southbank on Upper Ground. For context, this junction has no motor vehicle signs on two sides! I saw one side, did a 3 point turn to avoid it and clearly unwittingly drove through the other. The sign on the right also would have been in my A-pillar blindspot whilst doing the turn and the one on the left is remarkably far away from the carraigeway.

I would like to find out if I have any grounds for appeal. I note that similar to another Lambeth case dealt with by user Hippocrates on here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-52m-eastmearn-road-lambeth-5206/msg62370/#msg62370), there is a discrepancy in dates - the notice was issued on 06.08.2025 and states that I have 14 days to pay the discounted rate, but the online portal says I have until 25.08.2025 to pay the discounted rate, which is 19 days.

Please find attached a copy of my letter, some screengrabs from the portal and some GSV screenshots. The exact google maps location is here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Bwrmawh2sBDkGB4h9
Please note that if you move around you will lose the signs as there is very little data for 2024 and after at this location.

I also note this successful appeal at Tribunal for this location regarding improper signage, citing no prior warning from sharp turns https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:70::INITIALISE::70:P70_CAS_REFNO,P70_PCN_REFNO,P70_RETURN_PAGE,P70_AST_CODE:1673801,3076567,60,APPEAL&cs=39m0YTCPGBmq8dTz83zMUMXopV1wBPOJjrc2CeV6jLBjyU8NXmwjuct50v5fP16VknjeZt11Md283SIzyuaO2Aw

Thanks in advance for your time.







5

I received a letter yesterday on 04.02.2025 dated 27.01.2025 that the TEC has revoked the recovery order and charge certificate.


Which of the witness statement grounds did you claim? Do you have a copy?

When you say 'I', you mean 'my company'? You cannot have a PCN in your name.

And when you refer to 'my company' you own or are a director or similar of the company and authorised to act on their behalf?

The car is registered to a company that I own, that I am the director of. I was driving it at the time. I received an NTO relating to a PCN that I did not see and therefore did not have the opportunity to respond to. I mistakenly appealed the NTO (requesting to pay at discounted rate) in my name as opposed to stating I was authorised to speak on behalf of the registered keeper.

Islington rejected these reps because they were in my name and not the registered keepers (the company).

I was away when these representations were sent and arrived back to a Charge Certificate.

I then submitted an in-time TE9 on the grounds that the registered keeper did not receive the original PCN.

TEC rejected this stating it was the wrong TE9 form. At this point the application was out of time.

I then submitted the correct TE9 form (supplied by TEC) stating that the RK did not receive the original PCN, alongside a TE7 explaining that the application is out of time owing to this mistake and the delay in TEC responding to me.

TEC accepted this and sent me a letter stating the charge certificate has been revoked.

The Islington portal has now updated and shows the PCN at NTO stage. I am now going to appeal again, as someone authorised to speak for the registered keeper, to ask if I can pay at the original discounted rate.

Hope that clarifies things. The original PCN has been issued bang to rights - I overstayed in a marked and signed pay and display bay by about 20 minutes, as shown in the photos. I just wish to pay it at the original discounted rate, which is what I would have done had I seen it in the first place.

6
Hi, apologies I didn't update this. The car is registered to my company. I was the driver. My TE9 has been successful - I had a small snag where I used the forms from the gov.uk website and TEC rejected saying it was the wrong one. They supplied one. I filled that one out with a TE7 saying it is now out of time due to this issue.

I received a letter yesterday on 04.02.2025 dated 27.01.2025 that the TEC has revoked the recovery order and charge certificate. The Islington portal is still showing the PCN at £130. Should I contact them to confirm that it has cancelled or will the system automatically update? If I am able to pay the PCN at the original discounted rate I will happily settle it immediately.

TIA

7
Hi all,

CONTEXT
I have a parking PCN from Islington Council. The incident was in August 2024. I never received the original PCN and as such did not get a chance to pay at the discounted rate. The car is a company car. I appealed the NTO in my name. Islington rejected the appeal stating that it has to come from the registered keeper. I was away when this reply came and arrived back to a Charge Certificate.

QUESTION
I've waited for the amount to go up so I could submit a witness statement but I'm confused as to what form I need and what the process is. I've never had to do this for a London Borough. I have two questions:

1) Which form do I need for a London parking ticket - PE3 or TE9? I believe I am still 'in time'
2) Do I need to do a statutory declaration at a court or do I just fill the form out and email it to TEC?

Some guidance on filling the form out would also be great - who is the applicant, me or the council?

If I have missed a central guide on CCs and forms please let me know - I had a search and couldn't find anything.

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