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Messages - hot_chocolate

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1
Thanks for that. Would you be able to share any cases whenever you get a moment, please?

The third way of paying, via PayPoint, is also only possible if one exits the car park. There is no PayPoint within the car park itself. This would seem to suggest that there must be some grace period, otherwise it would be quite difficult to reach the nearest paypoint.

Thanks again.

2
Hi everyone,

As expected, the appeal was rejected. The rejection can be viewed below:

https://ibb.co/bgNzgNtM
https://ibb.co/TMRWRPjN

I'd appreciate guidance on the next stage. Thanks!

3
Thank you @stamfordman, that is very sharp. Much appreciated!

4
Hi everyone,

Just bumping the above ... grateful for feedback so far. Looking to submit appeal in next couple of days. Thanks.

5
Thanks.

@Incandescent What is the law in this case?

@stamfordman thanks - I took a picture of my dashboard with the time and the pcn side-by-side. Of course, this merely suggests that I became aware of the pcn by this time. If they have cctv, then that should verify that I was out of the car park straight after.

https://ibb.co/9krWrhtg
https://ibb.co/PvvBmWnq

Was having a look at the Redbridge website for more info on RingGo - the same info is also in the carpark (https://ibb.co/QvPrwZtQ). Interestingly, the third way of paying, via PayPoint, is only possible if one exits the car park. There is no PayPoint within the car park itself. This would seem to suggest that there must be some grace period, otherwise it would be quite difficult to reach the nearest paypoint.

"You can pay in person with cash, credit or debit card at one of the many PayPoint outlets in the borough.
These are recognisable by the PayPoint logo, typically displayed in the window or on a sign outside the shop.

To use PayPoint for parking payments:

park your car in a “paid for parking” space
note the location code displayed on RingGo signs near to it
go to your nearest PayPoint outlet
tell the outlet that you want to pay for parking and give your location code, vehicle registration number and duration for parking
the PayPoint outlet will create you session and charge you the relevant amount

https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/parking/ringgo-and-paypoint-paying-for-parking/


6
Hi all,
Grateful for feedback so far. Just bumping this to see if anything else to add/remove. Thanks.

7
Thanks for your input. Please let me know if you think any further changes are needed to the draft below. Thanks again.

PCN Number: 1F12228449
Contravention Code: 11u
Location: Reads Close, Ilford

I challenge this PCN on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur.

The PCN alleges a failure to pay a parking charge. However, at this location the relevant parking period was free, subject only to registering the vehicle. No parking charge was payable at the time, and therefore it is not possible for a failure to pay a parking charge to have occurred.

In any event, the PCN records a contravention time of 16:29, with an observation period of only one minute. The parking session was successfully registered at 16:31, meaning the difference between the end of the alleged contravention and the start of the session is approximately one minute.

I had left the vehicle briefly in order to register the session, which was completed immediately thereafter. This falls well within the reasonable time allowed to commence a parking session, particularly where no payment is required. A one-minute gap does not amount to a failure to comply with the parking terms, and issuing a PCN with such a minimal observation period is premature.

For these reasons, the alleged contravention did not occur and the PCN should be cancelled.

8
Hi everyone,
Received a ticket in a place with free parking subject to registration. I've drafted my appeal below, and would appreciate any input to help sharpen. Thanks.

PCN Number: 1F12228449
Contravention Code: 11u
Location: Reads Close, Ilford

I wish to formally appeal the above PCN.

On the day in question, shortly before 4:00pm, I parked at Reads Close in Ilford in order to eat with my family at Steakbox, which is located just around the corner. The restaurant staff explicitly informed me that parking at Reads Close is free for at least the first hour, subject only to registering the vehicle.

I moved my car to Reads Close and, at approximately 4:21pm, attempted to register my free parking using the RingGo app. However, the app would not open, and at the same time my phone was unable to make outgoing calls for reasons beyond my control. I spent several minutes attempting to resolve this and looking for alternative ways to register.

At around 4:25pm, I walked back to the restaurant to use my wife’s phone. Using her phone, I successfully called the registration number and completed the free parking registration by approximately 4:31pm (see attached image). When I returned to my vehicle at 4:49pm, I found that a PCN had already been issued.

There was no intention whatsoever to avoid registration or payment. No payment was required in any event, as this is a free parking period, and I made genuine and prompt efforts to comply with the terms. I have a clear history of paying for and registering parking via RingGo and similar systems and have no incentive to avoid doing so, particularly where parking was free.

The alleged contravention occurred only because of temporary technical issues with my phone, and I completed registration as soon as it was practically possible. Issuing a PCN in these circumstances is unfair and disproportionate, as I was acting in good faith and complied with the requirement to register.

I therefore respectfully request that this PCN be cancelled. Please also note that in the case that this is rejected, I will take this to the tribunal.




Attachment links, in case doesn't show up:
https://ibb.co/hFsnTdkn
https://ibb.co/6JZZLJcq

9
Ah, I must have just assumed it was the second option that I was meant to tick, since WF would be fully aware that I had already made a formal representation, and it was the rejection that I had not received. The new letter allows me to make another formal representation, and so I will respond like the first time, and take from there if they decide to reject it.




What?

You were advised to cite the grounds of 'Did not receive the Notice to Owner'.

Anyway, this is water under the bridge.

See what others think.

10
Thanks for the reply. I've attached the witness statement and the revocation order. I think I followed the instructions, and hope I haven't made a huge blunder :(   

Appreciate the help.



We MUST see a copy of your witness statement and the revocation order from TEC.

Either you have boo-booed massively or WF have.

The order will tell us.

If it's WF then you're home and dry.

For reference, you were advised to submit the witness statement on the grounds that you did not receive the NTO.

11
Hi @stamfordman, @Pastmybest, @H C Andersen, and everyone else,

Hope you well!

My NTO just through the other day, by email - attached.

As always, most grateful for guidance on the two options.

Thanks and best wishes!

12
Shall I reply and say I did not receive my NTO?

'Reply', no, action, yes.

The instructions are clear in that you must complete the enclosed TE9 form and send to the Traffic Enforcement Centre using one of the methods offered. We recommend using email, copied to yourself to prove sending, with the completed TE9 attached.

Just tick 'I did not receive the NTO in question' and sign.

Super, just sent across by email with completed form, and copied myself in.

Will update once the next letter comes through, which I believe will be the NTO.

Thanks again.

13
Hi @stamfordman and @Pastmybest,
Hope you well!
Just received my OFR (attached).
Shall I reply and say I did not receive my NTO?
Thanks!

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

15
Are the name and address correct on the charge certificate.

The usual process is to wait for the order for recovery and then make a witness statement saying you didn't get the NTO, which will result in WF issuing a fresh NTO.

As you've been in touch you may as well see if they'll cancel the charge certificate and let you make reps but it's out of process.

Hi @stamfordman,

Received a letter in the post (attached) saying that they cannot sent a copy of the Notice to Owner, but I have 28 days from the 14/05/25 - seems like they moved the date forward by a month.

I can send a representation by email and have a couple of days to do this.

Would you suggest repeating the same points made in the appeal, perhaps with the addition that WFC provided an older traffic order as evidence (2019) rather than the more recent changes introduced at the same place?

As always, your advice is much appreciated. Thank you!


Hi everyone,

I'm considering replying tonight as follows. Any thoughts, as always, would be appreciated.

The bay in question appears to be a long, extended disabled bay with limited or unclear signage. Moreover, the markings outside number 26 suggest that part of the bay may have been revoked, and the vehicle was parked outside number 28, not within a clearly marked restricted area. I requested the relevant traffic order from Waltham Forest Council as soon as possible, and in response, they provided a Traffic Management Order dated 25 July 2019. However, according to the Live Traffic Orders UK website, the location outside No. 28 Clarendon Road has been designated as a residents' bay from 17 October 2022 to the present. Furthermore, The London Gazette (Notice ID: 4185144; Notice code: 1501, published 14 October 2022) confirms that the disabled bay outside No. 26 was formally removed under Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Acts. This evidence clearly shows that, at the time of the alleged contravention, my vehicle was lawfully parked in a residents' bay—not in a disabled bay as claimed.

 

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