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Messages - LyHen

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording Advice
« on: August 06, 2024, 11:43:58 am »
Quote from: H C Andersen on August 06, 2024, 11:25:26 am
You had to pay by 9 July after which the £235 enforcement fee may be added.

Even more reason to pay if you can at the NoE rate.

IMO, boxing and coxing with addresses on warrants at best merely delays the inevitable without addressing the underlying issue.

So far there is NO evidence that the council used your correct DVLA address, none whatsoever. You have not received any notices from them (assuming the PCN was served on the car) so how would you know what address was used? The agents have tracked you down, but it's their job and they may use data sets other than used by the council.

If you can pay at the lower rate then you remove the time pressure and may submit a Subject Access Request to the council to provide copies of your personal data held by them in this context.

The PCN was served by post, as it was a moving infraction. Which is what confuses me further. How did that get to me and not the others?

The post isn't the most reliable in my area, but due to digitisation of most of the correspondence I receive; it has never really posed that much of an issue.

I am going to pay it now and give myself some room to breathe.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording Advice
« on: August 06, 2024, 11:00:08 am »
@Enceladus My apologies for blindly skipping over your very clearly laid out rules. I know it must get frustrating to keep redirecting people😩.

I have attached a copy of the NoE.

I am the RK and have checked all the details and they are accurate. I did receive the original PCN, but I cannot find it anywhere😭. Sorry I don't have that to upload, but if I find it I will.

I do remember that it was for driving through a bus gate at Burbage Road, Dulwich.

So to confirm, I received the original PCN through the mail, but nothing other than that.
I did not appeal this and then completely forgot about it's existence until the NoE arrived.

I am inclined to agree with H C Anderson, on the £160 being a rip off and that paying the NoE rate might be the best option until OOT is processed.

Here is a link to the NoE documents: https://1drv.ms/f/c/eca044cc664b450b/EqIGcN1cITtCq4hjlHhbD8gBBmwHSM05TmozAZzORL4oaQ 

Apologies I couldn't embed them and for any duplication of text, I'm having to move between my phone and computer.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording Advice
« on: August 06, 2024, 10:53:14 am »
Quote from: H C Andersen on August 05, 2024, 02:29:36 pm
OP, the £160 offer is IMO a rip-off, particularly when you consider that TEC officers' decisions are subjective. With TEC the key issues are not of law IMO but whether a respondent's (that's you) submission presents sufficient relevant believable facts in support of their grounds.

To this end you absolutely MUST expand on:

I don't have an evidential basis for this, as I just didn't receive some of the correspondence that would have allowed me to submit in time

What docs did you receive, a simple timeline would suffice:

PCN - if served to vehicle    ****
NTO/Enforcement Notice  ****
Representations made, yes/no  on *****
Notice of Rejection received/not received dated *****
Charge Certificate received yes/no, issue date *****
Order for Recovery received yes/no, dated *****.

The NoE will include a latest date for payment. I suggest you pay at the NoE rate.

Why? Isn't this giving up?

No, it's not. Paying the NoE simply caps your liability and avoids the staggering enforcement fee being added. It has NO effect on the likelihood of success with an Out of Time submission, none at all.

If your OOT succeeds then the compliance stage fee(£75) and surcharged penalty are refunded and you're back to whatever stage applies in respect of your grounds e.g. didn't receive the NTO, made reps but didn't receive a reply etc.

I am inclined to agree with you on both points. That the £160 offer is a bit of bump and also that paying the rate on the NoE, whilst processing the OOT, may be the best course of action.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording Advice
« on: August 06, 2024, 10:51:37 am »
Quote from: Enceladus on August 05, 2024, 02:15:49 pm
Quote from: Enceladus on August 05, 2024, 02:09:08 pm
Please post up PDF scans or photos of all pages of the bailiff's Notice of Enforcement. Just redact your name and address, please leave everything else visible. All as per the instructions in the READ THIS FIRST - ** sticky post at the top of this forum.

Who is the registered keeper (RK) of the car? If it's you then please find the V5c registration document for the car. Check that the name and the address are correct and current? No typos or anything odd? Don't just assume, please check.

Do you know the date of the alleged contravention? Was the V5c RK address correct on that date?

RK is me and having checked the V5C, all details are correct.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording Advice
« on: August 06, 2024, 10:50:43 am »
Quote from: Incandescent on August 05, 2024, 11:00:39 pm
Documents, please, documents !!

What statutory documents did you receive ?
- PCN
- Notice to Owner, (if for a parking PCN served to the car)
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery

If none of the above, then it does look as if your V5 needs to be looked at. Most cases where an OP says the bailiffs are at the door come down to failure to update the V5 after a change of address. BTW, changing the driver licence address does NOT update your V5.

Sorry, I'm just working on getting these uploaded now. I didn't realise I had replies and the notification button is now firmly on!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording Advice
« on: August 05, 2024, 11:52:43 am »
Hello,

I am wondering if anyone would be able to offer any advice on what the best wording/ reasoning would be to put on a PE2 form to have the PCN re-issued?

I have received a letter from Bristow and Suitor notifying enforcement action and know that I need to submit the PE2 and PE3, but I am also aware that the Out of Time Request is often rejected.

I don't have an evidential basis for this, as I just didn't receive some of the correspondence that would have allowed me to submit in time and I know that the council will say that they have evidence of postage; so it would be considered delivered.

I sought advice from an independent parking appeals group, who have said that they can get this through and reset for the tidy sum of £160, but it seems a lot when I will still have to pay the PCN when it's reissued. To that end, I may as well just pay the bailiffs!

Just wondering if anyone here had any ideas, or loopholes that I could enact before I give up £160.

I'm happy to pay on re-issuance, which is why I haven't uploaded information pertaining to the contravention, but please let me know if you'd like further information and I'll happily provide.

Thanks in advance!

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