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Messages - anonymous

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1
Do you want representation?

Apologies I have been away for a few days after a hospital visit gone bad. Yes please that would be really appreciated. Ordinarily I wouldn't mind giving it a go, but I really don't understand the reasonings, let alone how to argue them.

2
The hearing has been scheduled for 13th November.

This should be interesting but I am a bit nervous as to what I should say

3
I say Tribunal time.

I have logged on thee tribunal site to appeal.


For this one I assume I have to put in moving traffic (including junction box) contravention

and for this one I The contravention alleged by the authority on the penalty charge notice did not occur.

For the reasoning, I will apply what H C Anderson provided:
Quote
1. It is restricted to term-time only: then the council need to obtain the SoS's authorisation to a non-prescribed sign. But they haven't, because the only prescribed sign is every week, term time or not.

2. The restriction isn't term time only, which is what's conveyed by the advance sign. In which case IMO the signage fails the LATOR test because in combination those in the know might be tempted to drive into the area outside 'term time' but still be breaching the traffic order's prohibition.

Should I also add that there was no warning signs on the way to the road to be safe?

4
According to GSV there's an advisory sign only yards before Khartoum, between Opex Fashions and Khartoum.

Personally, I would focus on the non-prescribed white on blue sign shown in GSV and the video: School streets - Restricted Access Term time only.

No such permitted sign.

1. It is restricted to term-time only: then the council need to obtain the SoS's authorisation to a non-prescribed sign. But they haven't, because the only prescribed sign is every week, term time or not.

2. The restriction isn't term time only, which is what's conveyed by the advance sign. In which case IMO the signage fails the LATOR test because in combination those in the know might be tempted to drive into the area outside 'term time' but still be breaching the traffic order's prohibition.

In either case, IMO you have strong grounds for appeal.

Apologies I have been quite busy with personal matters and as such forgot about this. Luckily I am still within the time limit.

So I should appeal and write the above as is?

5
Hi,

they have rejected the representations.





The image they have posted of the advance warning signage prior to Khartoum Road on page 2 is only visible if coming from the opposite direction of which the vehicle travelled. I have not had a chance to go see for myself if there was advanced signage in the direction that the vehicle travelled.

I have attached a crudely edited diagram which is helpful to myself in visualising it.



The vehicles route is represented by the black line. The red x represents roughly where the advanced sign they indicated is. It is visible if travelling FROM Khartoum road, the opposite direction of what the vehicle travelled.

6
Dear Redbridge

1. Your own video shows completely unreadable signage. I refer you to case 2250006928 in this regard. The right hand sign has not been properly maintained as it should under LATOR.

2. The placement of the signage is unfit for purpose as it is easily missed.

3. Upon checking the blue plate, this is not a prescribed sign as it is most definitely proscribed (disallowed) by the TSRGD 2016. I refer  you to cases  2250121336 and 224043551A in this regard.

Considering the above, please cancel the PCN.
No contravention


Thank you. I have submitted the challenge.

7
Hi, I want to contest, but if anyone can suggest to me the right option to select when challenging as I wrote above I would be grateful.

Would it be There was no contravention of an order, failure to comply with an order or failure to comply with an indication on a sign or do I select Other grounds?

8
Dear Redbridge

1. Your own video shows completely unreadable signage. I refer you to case 2250006928 in this regard. The right hand sign has not been properly maintained as it should under LATOR.

2. The placement of the signage is unfit for purpose as it is easily missed.

3. Upon checking the blue plate, this is not a prescribed sign as it is most definitely proscribed (disallowed) by the TSRGD 2016. I refer  you to cases  2250121336 and 224043551A in this regard.

Considering the above, please cancel the PCN.

Thank you so much for taking the time out of your holiday to respond.

I am assuming that when contesting, I select the option that says There was no contravention of an order, failure to comply with an order or failure to comply with an indication on a sign. or do I select Other grounds?


9
I cannot see the PCN clearly and need to be able to check dates.

Very important On what date did TEC revoke the order for recovery and Charge certificate?

Apologies, my phones camera isnt the best. Hopefully this is clearer.



I would have to find their letter but the TEC letter that revoked the order was dated around 21st of May

10
Hi Everyone. We received a ticket from the Borough of Redbridge for failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (camera enforcement) at 14:32 on the 24/01/25. Initially we did not receive the PCN through the post so had to go through the TEC. Redbridge have now reissued the PCN that we have now received.

The footage shows the driver entering at 14.32, 2 minutes past the enforcement time. However the driver was not aware that it was a pedestrian zone. The driver entered the road by turning left. The sign closest to them was angled away it seems from the footage, and the sign on the other side of the road was covered, as shown in the images and video supplied by Redbridge. It seems the sign closest to them was still a bit covered by residue as seen. Is there a way this can be challenged?

There is also a video on there, but apologies I do not know how to grab it.

PCN



Images grabbed from redbridge



Google Street View (shows uncovered signage)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Khartoum+Rd,+Ilford/@51.5482454,0.0760006,3a,90y,274.82h,90.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGsaFg0dLWasT6abDpVpWzQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-0.6742574019789629%26panoid%3DGsaFg0dLWasT6abDpVpWzQ%26yaw%3D274.82317109058056!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x47d8a66647b48631:0xaacaaa67e7312d9d!8m2!3d51.5481064!4d0.0747963!16s%2Fg%2F1tf2x1gz?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYxMC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

11
You submit it on the 14th, any time before close of business.

Use their online portal but make sure you do not select any option that requires you to admit to being the driver. You are appealing solely as the Keeper.

Ok thank you. One final question based on what you said. I am neither the driver not the keeper in this instance. Does this mean that I should get the keeper to appeal the ticket? We got the ticket because of me and I said that I would sort it out.

12
OK. So the NtD is not compliant with PoFA 7(2)(a) because it does not specify the period of parking to which the notice relates. There is no evidence that the vehicle remained parked for longer than the minimum consideration period for a contract to have been formed.

For now, the Keeper complains to PALS and the NHS Trust CEO to get them to have the PCN cancelled. If there has been no confirmation of the PCN being canceled by Tuesday 14th May, you submit the following appeal to Gemini, only as the Keeper:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Driver (NtD) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Gemini has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtD can only hold the driver liable. Gemini have no hope should you be so foolish as to eventually try and litigate this, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Make sure you put Tuesday 14th May in your diary with a reminder to not miss that date. The reason is to try and get them to reject the appeal without issuing a Notice to Keeper (NtK) within the prescribed period.

This PCN would never stand up in a court should they be do stupid as to try and make a claim later on.

Thank you so much today. I will do as you say. Just for clarification, do I submit the appeal on the 14th or before? I.e the 13th? Also if it is the 14th should I do it before a certain time? Lastly I assume I am to appeal using their online portal?

13
The NtD are the first 2 images in the first post. That was what was received.

You've truncated the images. We need to see the whole NtD. You only need redact your VRM and the PCN number.

When contacting PALS, remind them of their obligations as stated in this document:

NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts

Also, I suggest you write to the Trust Chief Executive and let them delegate of their minions to handle your case.

If you click on them they should show the whole thing. No matter I have attached them to this post [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

14
Quote
We have not received a NtD. We got the PCN yesterday posted on the car at the hospital
The notice on the windscreen is the Notice to Driver.

Quote
I have not spoken to the pals team but my experience of them in the past at this hospital has not been a positive one.
Still worth contacting them in my opinion. They may be helpful, they may not. If you don't contact them at all they definitely won't be helpful.

I see. The NtD are the first 2 images in the first post. That was what was received. I will try and also contact pals. Anything specific I can say to them?

15
Please show the whole of the Notice to Driver (NtD) that was received. You only need to redact the VRM, nothing else.

Have you complained to the hospital PALS service? They are your first port of call and can get the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) cancelled. I suggest you also copy in the Chief Executive of the NHS Trust for that hospital.

DO not appeal anything until we've see the whole of the NtD and certainly not before day 27 after the date the notice was issued and definitely not later than day 28.

We have not received a NtD. We got the PCN yesterday posted on the car at the hospital. Am I meant to wait for a letter?

I have not spoken to the pals team but my experience of them in the past at this hospital has not been a positive one.

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