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Messages - Kirbs

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1
One further question on this one, if I could get a little more guidance before considering payment - I note they haven't yet uploaded the photos when I check the PCN. I suspect it's still enforceable even if they don't show the evidence?

2
Thanks Stamford. I do have a diagnosis letter from the NHS confirming fibromyalgia, but in all honesty I have zero faith in this council to account for it. As much as it pains me to admit it, if there are no technicalities in PCN wording, I may just pay the discounted fee.

Noted as well on your comments, Incandescent, and thanks for the advice. I'm loathe to leave it in their hands to reject me quickly, however - and post being what it is, even if they were to do the decent thing and not drag it out, there's no guarantee I'd receive the rejection in time. Gambling I can do, but only provided the odds are in my favour - not so with Havering council...

3
The PCN details are linked above in the original post (via Onedrive); let me know if there's any issue accessing them, and I can see if there's another way to host them.

4
I did buy a parking session as soon as I realised. Ticket was issued at 17:40 and parking session booked (from inside the ward, I did not go back outside) around 18:00. And yes, the contravention itself is (I believe) correct.

In terms of mitigating health issues, are you talking about my own, or the person I was visiting? Assuming the former, I have fibromyalgia, which can come with brain fog. I've parked in this car park a dozen times over the past two weeks, and this is the first time I've forgotten to pay.

Noted on them not reoffering the discount - bit mean of them, the last PCN I had was a good while back from LBBD and they reoffered, so this is good to know. I'll see what others say, but I have some time to decide. If there's a chance I don't mind being a bit risky, but if not, no sense in giving up the discount for a done deal.

5
Hello everyone,

Been a while since I last got myself in trouble, but a moment of absent-mindedness has landed me with a nice yellow envelope on my windscreen.

In fairness, I hold my hands up here - visiting an elderly relative in hospital and I forgot to pay the parking charge until I'd already been there for enough time to have the ticket slapped on.

However, as I've said on previous occasions - highly critical of the local councils in this area and their sheer inability to operate in the best interests of residents, so I'd rather not pay them a penny I don't have to pay them.

Any advice highly appreciated on technicalities I might win on here; otherwise, if the advice is "all in order, stop being daft and pay the discount", then happy to take that on board with grace too.

Front and back of PCN here:

https://1drv.ms/i/c/0a844cd793b2dfda/EYeX2FJzsgJFg3-ahfvYO4kBpndCKuebBEkBPmlw39nUmw

https://1drv.ms/i/c/0a844cd793b2dfda/EU1HPGCg0ipDqusmgq6SPV8BQXaP-8mXDUtFW1ykWBhePQ

Google Maps location here:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/WMt6PvDb2oFi99e1A?g_st=ic

6
great work , to the driver you literally dropped them off for a couple of seconds and no buses or traffic at all nearby! glad you got off it, just be careful at Heathway there are literally hunting for any excuse around their to give you a ticket,

check the Lidl you can't right turn into their car park between 8am and 10am and 4pm and 6.30pm on a week day , small details but they have caught nearly £1m worth of fines

You're not wrong! Any excuse to rake in money. This council makes me want to tear my hair out...

I am unfortunately very aware of the Lidl right turn as well, had my SIL get caught by that one not long after I'd gotten the bus stop PCN. As a family, we were not having a good week! Sadly she's not as inclined to argue against the council as I am and paid at discount.

7
A sensible response to a PCN challenge, what a rarity! Maybe I should move back to Brighton...

8
With thanks to cp for his hard work and patience!

9
East London boroughs would apparently rather accuse people of fraud than simply fixing their PCN issuing procedures. Some serious mental gymnastics going on there...

10
If that's the case, then yes, I'm willing to proceed to tribunal, and would appreciate the representation. What information (or actions) would you need from me to do so?

11
doesn't matter re the bays as the time limit does not apply to BB holders due to the exemption for disabled persons act

However, OP states they were relying on the virtual BB (presumably because they were under the impression they were in the applicable resident bay?) and evidence photos from the PCN show the physical blue badge wasn't on display, which is what has thrown a spanner in the works, I think.

12
The veterans will be along to help more, I'm sure, but since I'm familiar with the area I'll weigh in here. There are a couple of bays right up by the corner of the Heathway that aren't actually HW permit bays, they're 1 hour short-stay bays. GSV below:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/NPpsjtxzosaG7PXD7?g_st=ic

For reference, I believe virtual BBs are something LBBD does to stop BB holders having to pay for a CPZ permit when the BB entitles them to park without one, but also avoids you having to leave your BB in your car for extended periods (e.g., overnight) and risk having your car broken into and BB nicked. The virtual BBs replace the paid residents permit but are only valid for your CPZ.

13
Thanks cp. With there being no clear points to argue on, and being very busy in the middle of a house move, SIL and BIL have decided to pay at the discounted rate. The logbook's not been sent off for a change of address yet so they didn't want to challenge and risk missing a response, but they pass on their thanks for having a look!

Hopefully the up-to-date pictures help for any of the same contravention in the same location also.

14
Moving Traffic Appeal Form?  Please show it.

It's in the folder above that linked to the PCN pages, but also direct link here: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtrfspPXTIQKgbJYpuQ4QB5--KNYEg

@Kirbs as the discount is not on offer there's no reason not to carry on.

Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?

Is it not on offer still? The letter said (below the bullet points):

"As you made your challenge within the period during which the discounted amount of £55.00 was payable, we are willing to reoffer this discount until the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the date of service of this letter. If payment is not received within this period, then the full amount of £110.00 will be due."

That being said, if there is reasonable chance of winning I would be happy to take a chance on tribunal even with the discount still available, and at that point would be grateful for the representation. What do you think of the chances?

15
As predicted, rejection from the council received in yesterday's post. Pictures uploaded to the folder, but text also reproduced below:

***

Notice of Rejection of Representation
Traffic Management Act 2004

(details of PCN and appeal number)

Your vehicle was recorded by our CCTV Enforcement Camera contravening parking restrictions on Heathway (Dagenham).

The Council has issued and served a Penalty Charge Notice as the aforementioned vehicle was recorded by an approved device stopped on 'stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand'. The CCTV footage was reviewed by a CCTV operator who deemed that a contravention has occurred.

The contravention occurs when a vehicle other than a public service vehicle operating a scheduled service waits during prescribed hours on a restricted bus stop or a bus stop clearway/red route marked by yellow markings and the words 'BUS STOP' or 'BUS STAND'.

I have noted your comments and I have checked all the evidence, I can confirm that the location is correct and is very clear that the vehicle was stopped on a restricted bus stop, therefore the PCN was issued correctly.

We have again reviewed the CCTV footage and have considered the representations you have submitted. Unfortunately, you have not satisfactorily demonstrated in your appeal that an exemption applies. The other points submitted in mitigation do not justify the cancellation of the PCN.

See attached the photo evidence:

(photo evidence here)

This letter is a formal Notice of Rejection. Therefore, before the end of the period of 28 days, beginning with the date of service of this Notice of Rejection, ("the 28-day period"), you must either:

- pay the full amount of £110
- appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators ("ETA"), please note that payment at the discounted amount will no longer be available if your appeal is unsuccessful

As you made your challenge within the period during which the discounted amount of £55.00 was payable, we are willing to reoffer this discount until the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the date of service of this letter. If payment is not received within this period, then the full amount of £110.00 will be due.

If you wish to appeal then you may do so online at www.londontribunals.org.uk Your verification code for the appeal is 91H313 and you will need to input this in order to appeal. If you are unable to appeal online then you can submit your appeal by post using the Appeal Form enclosed with this letter.

You should be advised that:

- The Adjudicator cannot consider mitigating circumstances
The Adjudicator's decision is binding on you and us
- Costs may be awarded against either side if the Adjudicator considers that they have acted in a frivolous, vexatious or wholly unreasonable manner.

If you wish to pay the charge, payment can be made as follows:

(details of how to pay here)

If you do not pay or make an appeal to ETA during the 28-day period then we may increase the Penalty Charge by 50% and we may serve a Charge Certificate, at which point the Penalty Charge will be £165.00. Please note however that the Adjudicator may consider a late appeal, provided that you give sufficient reasons for the delay. If we receive notification of an appeal after the Charge Certificate has been served then we will cancel the Charge Certificate and the charge will revert to the full amount of £110.00.

Yours sincerely,

***

The postal appeal form for a Moving Traffic Penalty Charge follows the above.

Is it really enough to contest a vague locus representation by just saying "I can confirm the location is correct"?

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