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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lost at the Tribunal - take it to high court?
« on: July 19, 2024, 12:46:28 pm »
Here is my case number: 2240249242 refusal dated 9th July 2024
Question:
If i ask for a review, who will review it? Will it cost me any money? How do i go about doing this? Can i raise same / similar points again which was not addressed as part of the tribunals refusal? I believe i have 2 days to do this before my 14 days are over.
Below is the tribunals refusal letter:
They also did not provide me with any details on how to appeal/review decions.
When i attneded the person behind the desk introduced himself as a barrister.
I notice in the refusal he did not mention anything about me not being able to see the end of the box as a driver before we got into technicals about the yellow box.
Here is a list of points i raised on the day along with some of my own notes / images.
• My exit was clear before I entered the box, traffic was free flowing
• The exit window is virtually impossible to see from behind the traffic light and cycle box. This poses a significant visibility challenge.
• Elongated yellow box goes past the corner, renders it virtually impossible for approaching vehicles to discern its boundaries until it is too late.
• Build-up of stationary vehicles on Cambridge Park Road, not discernible from Blake Hall Road until one commits in to the yellow box. Lack of foresight due to the bend unfairly penalises drivers who are unable to anticipate traffic beyond their immediate line of sight.
• Oncoming vehicles turning left onto Blake Hall Road from my right further obstructs the visibility of the exit to the yellow box
• Green light before the yellow box, stopping abruptly here at a green light i risk rear-end collisions, road rage from drivers behind me who cannot see yellow/box round the corner
• Momentum gained when traffic started to move, it is impractical to stop safely without endangering others behind me, especially when the light remains green.
• I maneuvered my large SUV without impeding the flow of traffic or obstructing other vehicles. Both my vehicle and the one behind me proceeded without hindrance, this underscores the fact the yellow box is larger than it should be. It is designed to unfairly catch out drivers such as myself when we are not an obstruction.
• Drivers should have adequate visibility beyond the box to be able to make a clear judgment before entering it
• Expert review by RAC by Sam Wright a chartered engineer, formally responsible for the design and approval of yellow boxes on the TfL Road Network concluded:
- 98 of the 100 boxes are bigger than they need to be
- The boxes are on average 50% bigger than they need to be
- 53 of the boxes are not under signal control and could easily be converted to ‘keep clear’ markings to serve the same purpose
• Traffic signs manual chapter 5 road markings (2018) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c4ace6ded915d38a0611abc/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf (page 90, refer to 8.3.2)
8.3.2. Half‑boxes, in which only half the area of the junction is marked (see Figure 8-2) are appropriate at T‑junctions and other junctions where the traffic blocks back from one direction only. Half‑boxes should be used only on the minor road side of the main carriageway to allow emerging traffic to turn right where the queue of traffic in the major road is to the left. A half‑box on the side of the road opposite a T‑junction generally serves no useful purpose. Even though it will create a gap in a queue of traffic, drivers.
Purpose of yellow box
Traffic signs manual chapter 5 road markings (2018) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual (page 89, refer to 8.1.2)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c4ace6ded915d38a0611abc/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf
8.1.2. The purpose of a yellow box marking is to mark an area of carriageway conveying the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles (S9‑7‑11).
• Road markings – Guidance (Updated 5 December 2023) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/road-markings#at-junctions
Where stationary traffic would be likely to block a junction, a yellow box may be marked on the road, covering all or part of the junction.
Case law precedent
I draw your attention to the precedent set in case 2230304887 at the same junction in 2023. The adjudicator's ruling acknowledged the inherent challenges posed by the configuration of the junction, particularly regarding visibility. The box markings extend beyond the junction and do not meet the definition in Paragraph 11(6)(a) of Part 7 of Schedule 9.
Another adjudicator stated that “extending the box junction by a car length or more beyond the actual junction is neither compliant nor substantially compliant with requirement”.
(2170285940 Stephen Thurston v LB of Richmond Upon Thames, York St / Arragon Rd)
This yellow box is designed to ensnare unsuspecting drivers rather than facilitate traffic flow.
My questions:
• Can the council explain what the purpose of a yellow box is?
• Can council explain how my vehicle or any other vehicle is impeding traffic on the far side of the T junction?
• Then why is yellow box extended by a cars length?
• Does the council understand the meaning of case law?
Case Law:
Case law is the set of rulings from court judgements that set precedents for how the law has been interpreted and applied in certain cases. Case law is not held on legislation.gov.uk. https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ Judgments and decisions from 2003 onwards
Precedent: a previous case or legal decision that may be or (binding precedent) must be followed in subsequent similar cases.
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Question:
If i ask for a review, who will review it? Will it cost me any money? How do i go about doing this? Can i raise same / similar points again which was not addressed as part of the tribunals refusal? I believe i have 2 days to do this before my 14 days are over.
Below is the tribunals refusal letter:
They also did not provide me with any details on how to appeal/review decions.
When i attneded the person behind the desk introduced himself as a barrister.
I notice in the refusal he did not mention anything about me not being able to see the end of the box as a driver before we got into technicals about the yellow box.
Here is a list of points i raised on the day along with some of my own notes / images.
• My exit was clear before I entered the box, traffic was free flowing
• The exit window is virtually impossible to see from behind the traffic light and cycle box. This poses a significant visibility challenge.
• Elongated yellow box goes past the corner, renders it virtually impossible for approaching vehicles to discern its boundaries until it is too late.
• Build-up of stationary vehicles on Cambridge Park Road, not discernible from Blake Hall Road until one commits in to the yellow box. Lack of foresight due to the bend unfairly penalises drivers who are unable to anticipate traffic beyond their immediate line of sight.
• Oncoming vehicles turning left onto Blake Hall Road from my right further obstructs the visibility of the exit to the yellow box
• Green light before the yellow box, stopping abruptly here at a green light i risk rear-end collisions, road rage from drivers behind me who cannot see yellow/box round the corner
• Momentum gained when traffic started to move, it is impractical to stop safely without endangering others behind me, especially when the light remains green.
• I maneuvered my large SUV without impeding the flow of traffic or obstructing other vehicles. Both my vehicle and the one behind me proceeded without hindrance, this underscores the fact the yellow box is larger than it should be. It is designed to unfairly catch out drivers such as myself when we are not an obstruction.
• Drivers should have adequate visibility beyond the box to be able to make a clear judgment before entering it
• Expert review by RAC by Sam Wright a chartered engineer, formally responsible for the design and approval of yellow boxes on the TfL Road Network concluded:
- 98 of the 100 boxes are bigger than they need to be
- The boxes are on average 50% bigger than they need to be
- 53 of the boxes are not under signal control and could easily be converted to ‘keep clear’ markings to serve the same purpose
• Traffic signs manual chapter 5 road markings (2018) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c4ace6ded915d38a0611abc/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf (page 90, refer to 8.3.2)
8.3.2. Half‑boxes, in which only half the area of the junction is marked (see Figure 8-2) are appropriate at T‑junctions and other junctions where the traffic blocks back from one direction only. Half‑boxes should be used only on the minor road side of the main carriageway to allow emerging traffic to turn right where the queue of traffic in the major road is to the left. A half‑box on the side of the road opposite a T‑junction generally serves no useful purpose. Even though it will create a gap in a queue of traffic, drivers.
Purpose of yellow box
Traffic signs manual chapter 5 road markings (2018) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual (page 89, refer to 8.1.2)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c4ace6ded915d38a0611abc/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf
8.1.2. The purpose of a yellow box marking is to mark an area of carriageway conveying the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles (S9‑7‑11).
• Road markings – Guidance (Updated 5 December 2023) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/road-markings#at-junctions
Where stationary traffic would be likely to block a junction, a yellow box may be marked on the road, covering all or part of the junction.
Case law precedent
I draw your attention to the precedent set in case 2230304887 at the same junction in 2023. The adjudicator's ruling acknowledged the inherent challenges posed by the configuration of the junction, particularly regarding visibility. The box markings extend beyond the junction and do not meet the definition in Paragraph 11(6)(a) of Part 7 of Schedule 9.
Another adjudicator stated that “extending the box junction by a car length or more beyond the actual junction is neither compliant nor substantially compliant with requirement”.
(2170285940 Stephen Thurston v LB of Richmond Upon Thames, York St / Arragon Rd)
This yellow box is designed to ensnare unsuspecting drivers rather than facilitate traffic flow.
My questions:
• Can the council explain what the purpose of a yellow box is?
• Can council explain how my vehicle or any other vehicle is impeding traffic on the far side of the T junction?
• Then why is yellow box extended by a cars length?
• Does the council understand the meaning of case law?
Case Law:
Case law is the set of rulings from court judgements that set precedents for how the law has been interpreted and applied in certain cases. Case law is not held on legislation.gov.uk. https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ Judgments and decisions from 2003 onwards
Precedent: a previous case or legal decision that may be or (binding precedent) must be followed in subsequent similar cases.
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