Free Traffic Legal Advice

@ATB but with Trafford we have the 0845 argument as per Paul Bateman v Derbyshire County Council, and if you take this to the tribunal the case won't be heard for months.

If you can take a photo every time you happen to go there between now and the hearing, you should have plenty of evidence to put in front of the adjudicator.

Ahhh ok, this could change things if you think there's a good chance that could hold up and if I can get some pics of the van/s usually in the way - typically they probably won't be there now when I next go haha!

If it did go to tribunal, I'm assuming I'd need to attend in person - where would this likely be?

Quote from: ATB on June 19, 2024, 01:17:21 pm

I noticed they said "I can confirm that the signs..." and "... the restrictions are defined with entry/exit signs."

If only there were 'signs' rather than a single sign...

But there are:

Entry sign: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fgFM7QWD8vxZMf8m7

Exit sign: https://maps.app.goo.gl/qYS87PUMccfPF4sh9

If there happened to be an large van going the other way as you drove in it might be an issue, but if the sign was there to be seen then it would be deemed adequate by most adjudicators.

The issue for me is there's only one sign on entry, and normally where the sign is there's a van normally parked there as he must get there early or stay permanently parked (I often park in the side street and walk up Brook Close and hence see the van parked there often but I'd never noticed the sign as the van blocks it) so assumed under the LATOR rules there should be a sign on the opposite side of the road also, and of course at the point of seeing the exit sign you've mostly likely already committed the offence and leaving...

Finally got a response, rejected as expected - pics enclosed

Given the issue with the DVLA - would it just be easier to pay? Or tell them to send the NtO to myself and fight?

Edit:
Images in the new post below

Ok, but can they still enforce this due to their own inability to deal with this in a reasonable amount of time? Or can they just take as long as they want to enforce it?

Also just read this comment on another Code 16 post

"The NtO is sent to the name and address on the V5 Registration Certificated for the car. Is this you and is the address up-to-date ?"

It just occurred to me that as I bought the car not long before the offence, I've still not received the updated V5 as yet - what if the NtO gets sent to the previous owner?

Yes. Regulation 18 (1)(a)

How does this read?

Appeal

Trafford Council
Ref: Appeal PCN TR10516584

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to make a formal representation against the Notice to Owner issued for Penalty
Charge Notice TR10516584 against registration V17 ABY

Request for discretion
I would invite the council to show discretion in enforcing this PCN.

Based on the above I kindly request the council to use its power of discretion to cancel the Penalty Charge on the basis councils are under a duty in the LATOR regulations to install sufficient signs at street level to convey the restriction to motorists. I invite you to review The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996, and specifically 1996 No. 2489, Part III, Regulation 18 (1)(a) which specifies:

---
Traffic signs
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18/made
---

It is quite clear here that in this case Trafford Council have failed to do this, as a single sign mounted on the opposite side of the road to entry can be and was easily obscured by parked vans due to the mounting height of the sign. If two signs had been erected and mounted higher, then it is almost certain at least one would have been seen. As I've confirmed, I did not see the sign, because it was obscured by a parked van in the immediate non permit requiring space in front of the sign.

Brook Lane (off Brook Close) has no such permit restrictions and cars are able to park anywhere along the road where there are no yellow lines, white lines or blocking entry to driveways. There are also no marked bays such as those in Grosvernor Road where there are marked parking bays and many, many permit signs. I would argue therefore that it was safe to assume Brook Close, like Brook Lane (and in non marked, none yellow lined spaces up to the permit sign) was a location where a non permit vehicle was eligible to park as I saw no sign when driving into Brook Close, and it was only when I received the PCN, and investigated the street for signs that I came across the single sign mounted low down and previously not visible due to the parked van in a non permit space. Under the LATOR regulations, councils are under a duty to erect sufficient signs so that the restriction is clearly indicated to motorists. Here I believe Trafford Council have failed to do so, therefore the contravention did not occur.

I request therefore the PCN be cancelled.

Post up both sides of the unredacted PCN in case the experts here can find that there is something wrong with the 'small print'.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Thanks for the reply and confirmation - I've since found this on the gov website too so guess I'll just have to suck it up and pay the fine and chalk this one up to experience!

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]