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Messages - zzzatang

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1
Hopefully, the final update on this PCN (for future reference):

I received a letter confirming the council has 'as a gesture of goodwill' cancelled the PCN.


https://app.box.com/s/ub7wt3900y5u21d48jtakiuxofj7ay1p

3
Let's see the PCN and the RingGo receipt.

A difference of one minute while taking out a session should be enough as long as you are credible in trying to do so as it looks like you are.

You met the CEO an hour later? That's corroboration of 1 free hour perhaps also.

I have provided the hyperlink of the PCN and the RinGo receipt at the end of my original post under the 'Attachment section'

For everyone's benefit I have relisted them below:

1. Parking Penalty Charge pdf  https://app.box.com/s/oebi9c59uq2mwln2836oyr083g7nmk0p
2. Screenshot Ringo Session https://app.box.com/s/vp96ak9j0o57m11ab73ucq7tbgklx6rw
3. Screenshot PayByPhone Payment Receipt Email https://app.box.com/s/2l3zftl6darlucq5o7zfgwy745u53u7c
4. Google Street View Location https://maps.app.goo.gl/azbLQh3CqbmkMnxp8

4
You've identified the main points, so submit reps on the basis of your points, and state plainly that the contravention did not occur because the first hour of parking is free. Make sure you emphasise that you were starting a session in order to park for the free hour, therefore the council have lost no money. ALso point out that obtaining a session by phone is no different to that of using a ticket machine, in that time is always allowed for obtaining a ticket. Can can explain that you had difficulty with the phone signal and getting your parking app to work, but this only took a few minutes.

However, such is the venality and rapacity of London councils, that they always reject informal challenges, knowing that most people then just cough-up to get the discount. Is this going to be you ? Appeals have been won on the basis that if a council allows the first hour of parking to be free then a PCN for not paying the parking charge is a nullity if the PCN recipient can show a parking session was established close to the time of the PCN

Others here will hopefully tell you more.

Thank you for your quick response. I will update the draft with some of your suggested wordings and wait for few more responses before I post an updated version.

I agree 100% with you on how councils behave and push us into paying the discounted amount.
I have gone till the London Tribunal stage once last year with the help of this forum and would take the council till that stage.

The only question is whether there is enough material at hand to win the (future) appeal ?


5
Request: Help drafting appeal — PCN AF11806619 (Station Road Ilford)

Short summary:

    Date: 25/10/2025. Reg: WM**HSA. Location: Station Road, Ilford. PCN AF11806619 (code 11u).

    I parked ~11:25–11:26, tried to start the free 1‑hour Ringo session but had mobile data issues after switching operator the day before.

    Went into Lidl (short walk way) to use Wi‑Fi but still had issues. Got an error on Ringo app, but did not take a screenshot as I was stressed that the session had not started. Eventually data worked at 11:29 am but Ringo session shows 11:30–12:30. CEO observation recorded 11:28–11:29 and PCN was issued 1 min before my session start.

    I returned to the car at 12:25 pm and the CEO advised me to appeal. He confirmed there is no observation period applicable as per Redbridge council policy.

    Evidence: scanned PCN, Ringo session history (11:30–12:30),
Potentia Evidence that I had not parked car for long enough before getting ticked: PayByPhone email receipt 10:36–11:36 for Newham location, possible store receipt or google wallet payment timed at 11:07am.

11:07 to 11:25 am covers time to unload shopping trolley in the car, return the trolley to the shop, drive from Fifth Avenue (Newham) to Station road (Ilford) via Romford road with some traffic due to works going on the road. Not sure whether I need to go into all these details in the appeal.

What I need from the forum:

    Advise on the appeal wording potentially highlighting: immediate attempt to pay, app/connectivity failure, session confirmed at 11:30, PCN issued 1 min before session registered, and council’s 1‑hour free policy.

    Quick view on whether the “1‑hour free” point is worth pressing.

    Whether to request Ringo logs and CEO bodycam/CCTV now or wait for Notice to Owner.

Here is my draft appeal:

To: London Borough of Redbridge Parking Services PCN No: AF11806619 — Reg WM**HSA

I challenge this PCN. I parked at Station Road on 25/10/2025 at ~11:25 and immediately tried to start the free 1‑hour Ringo session but suffered mobile data/connectivity failure. I entered Lidl to use their Wi‑Fi and repeatedly attempted to register. My Ringo session history shows 11:30–12:30. The CEO’s observation is recorded as 11:28–11:29 and the PCN was therefore issued possibly few seconds before my session registered. I returned at 12:25 and was told to appeal.

Grounds: genuine attempt to pay; app/connection failure; PCN issued few seconds before successful registration; council operates a 1‑hour free policy — my session covers that hour. Please cancel the PCN or supply the evidence (Ringo logs, CEO notes, photos, CCTV/bodycam) you rely on so I can respond.

Yours,
XYZ

______________________________
Attachments:
1. Parking Penalty Charge pdf
2. Screenshot Ringo Session
3. Screenshot PayByPhone Payment Receipt Email
4. Google Street View Location

6
Petition here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

Everybody please sign this petition and share it with your friends and families.  https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Original doc file here: https://app.box.com/s/r1iyeqjmn4nk3zazd4ds774fucj77ap2
Copy of doc as Image also available here: https://app.box.com/s/m4n88kl3otju5mo84ltursqj6530np7g

Explanation:

Councils Acquire Money Every Route Available
If you receive a bus lane ticket in London, you have the right to require the attendance of the officer responsible for the details of the camera to attend the hearing at the Tribunal. If they do not attend or provide the correct documents and by a certain time, you win. BUT, if you receive a ticket for any other moving traffic contravention such as a yellow box junction, you do not have the same right. This is unjust! So, please sign my petition below to incorporate this right into moving traffic law. It is a human right to examine one’s accusers who, by and large, are anonymous. I seek justice as do many motorists.
                                       
Create the right to examine council witnesses in moving traffic contraventions. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

7
A big Thank you to @Hippocrates , @cp8759 and this forum for all your help and guidance to get my appeal accepted.

Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions or queries about this PCN.

8
According to the CCTV footage timestamps, your vehicle had stopped between 13:31:07.801 and 13:31:15.512, indicating a stationary time of approximately 7 seconds.

This may fall under the legal principle of de minimis, which refers to matters considered too insignificant for legal action. You might consider appealing on these grounds. Additionally, other forum members may be able to suggest further grounds for appeal.

For the best assistance, please review the pinned thread outlining the information that should be added to a new thread. This will allow forum members to provide the most relevant and helpful advice.

9

Andrew Malpass v London Borough of Bromley (2240008359, 7 February 2024)


Following the precedent set in the Andrew Malpass v London Borough of Bromley case, I contend that the PCN issued to me is defective due to the following inconsistencies:

Contravention Location: The PCN incorrectly specifies the location as "HORNS ROAD (A)". There is no designated area with this name. The accurate location is simply "HORNS ROAD". The inclusion of "(A)" appears to be an internal reference used solely by the Council and has no bearing on the actual location.

Notice of Representation (NOR) Date Discrepancy: A discrepancy exists between the date listed on the NOR (page 1) – 03-April-2024 – and the date indicated in the "office only section" of the London Tribunals documentation – 02-April-2024. This inconsistency renders the NOR defective.

Furthermore, the reduction of the appeals period constitutes a significant defect, as previously discussed.  In my case, the wording within the NOR not only shortens the allotted time for submitting representations, but the issuing authority demonstrably reduced the actual time allowed by two days. Additionally, the council increased the penalty amount before the legal timeframe for representations had expired.

It is crucial to distinguish my case from the examples provided by cp8759. In those cases, the PCN itself contained an incorrect appeals period. While the PCN itself appears accurate in my case, the Council's implementation of the deadlines is demonstrably inconsistent with the information presented on the PCN. The truncation of the appeals period was solely implemented by the Council's actions.

10
So, does anybody have any other ideas how to fight this please?
Well, has an appeal been filed?

If yes, has the council contested?

Yes the appeal with London Tribunals was filed in April. The hearing is scheduled early next week (2nd week of Jun 2024).

The council has submitted their defence. (i.e. they are contesting it)

I am happy to provide specific sections of the evidence pack submitted by the council, though it is mostly a compilation of data already posted on this thread.

11
@leftylefty it might help others if you can share the video as well, please.
 Otherwise, forum members will have to view the video on the Barnet Council website (it is a more onerous option).

12
They had issued during the migration, it was all over the news.

People were unable to update their details even on and a few days after DART were asking people to update their details.

OP could have potentially tried to update and given up due to those tech issues during the migration.

13
I appreciate you have paid the DVLA.

It might help others who get into a similar situation if you provide a breakdown of what you ended up paying vs what was asked by the authorities. It will help others estimate what the minimum they would have to pay.

14
I have now received the NOR from the council.
NOR: https://app.box.com/s/ijc56ggswtshxwrlqx9k62r4lsb367jx

I noticed that the NOR letter is dated 03-Apr-2024. However, the "for Office use only" section of the London Tribunals form (last page of the NOR file) has a NOR date of 02-Apr-2024. Should this also be raised as an issue?

I have also attached a screenshot of the council's PCN page, it now shows 130 GBP as the due amount and shows the status as "Representation Rejected". Previously it was asking me to pay 195 GBP and had the status "Charge Certificate Posted".

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I believe the next step would be to file the online appeal at https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/

Any other suggestions, please?

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15
Please send me their response.

I have not received any response yet. I will definitely share the response with you once I get any.

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