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Messages - Incandescent

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1
Sorry, but you need to give more info. Please read this and update your thread accordingly: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Bus lane signs with no times or days means they apply 24x7

2
They say they do, but I don't want to get caught out and lose the reduced payment rate.
If you don't want to lose the discount option, then basically, its's game over, because councils reject virtually ALL reps they receive, because they know that >95% of people then just cough-up.

3

You have not posted either of the PCNs, so we don't know what Act it was served under. So please help us to help you by posting the documents. 

It seems the PCNs were for parking, and if so, this is under the Traffic Management Act 2004. For PCNs under this Act you can submit a Witness Statement against the Order for Recovery, but there are only a limited number of situations you can report. The form is Form PE3, but looking at your narrative, none of them fit your circumstances, and you are dependent on the goodwill of Southwark, because you did not do anything after receiving their rejection of your reps. See here for the form: -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice

You do not seem to have done anything at all about PCN PCN JK17298185, so the enforcement process will have run its inevitable course, but it would seem is now at the Charge Certificate stage. With no reps submitted, it's difficult to see this one ending favourably.

Unfortunately your story is an example of what happens when a PCN recipient doesn't respond fully to documents and lets things slide. Once matters get beyond the OfR stage, you'll be getting bailiff letters. The first is the Compliance stage, and adds £75 to what you owe the council.If the bailiffs visit you, another £235 is added on. These amounts are statutory, by the way. I'm afraid civil enforcement is as harsh as the old criminal law enforcement, and maybe more harsh when one looks at the sums that can accrue.

4
Please read this, and update your thread accordingly: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Have you received Penalty Charge Notices or Parking Charge Notices ? If the latter, then you need get a moderator to move your thread to the private tickets forum.

5
So what was the reason for submitting the SAR ? I ask because your narrative says you knew nothing about this "OOAJ -traffic warrant", so obviously you wanted to know something.

There is a website that may be able to provide better advice: -

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

Until you get some response from Marston, it is difficult to advise you on anything.  However, wait a bit to see what others may suggest.

6
We have seen this location several times now, and appeals have been won at London Tribunals. This is a PCN from venal and rapacious Havering council, who do not re-offer the discount when rejecting representations. This means that if you submit representations to them, it is on the basis that they will reject them, as they always do, and you then register an appeal at London Tribunals. It is this or just cough-up and join the MUugged CLub.

Here are the signs you passed which are not at the junction of South St and Eastern Road: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/uNhg1aSkkWKL5U2w5

There are two things you could argue cancellation of the PCN on: -

1. The PCN, and video does not show you passing any traffic sign barring motorvehicles.

2. You required access to the railway station and car park on Havana Close, so dropped off your passengers there, then parked in the multi-story car park

See this this case at London Tribunals: -
HG61116639
This covers inadequacy of signage and also access to premises.

7
@Incandescent - this has already reached adjudication stage.
Ah, sorry, I rushed in too quick !

8
The next stage, if you don't pay-up,  is the Notice to Owner.  Are you the owner, with your name and address on the V5C Registration Certificate ?

Only after you have had reps rejected against an NtO, can you register an appeal at London Tribunals. Greenwich will most likely re-offer the discount, but there isn't that option at London Tribunals, and to be honest, your argument has been tested there before and rejected. Having looked at the evidence, I don't think yoy'd win, sorry to have to say it. If you'd parked on the opposite side of the road like the other cars parked there, then you'd have been in the clear


9
I'm not sure the sign is misleading at all. There is a hierarchy of signs, with the main one at the top

1.It is a bay for charging EVs only

2.Any motorist with or without a permit and with an EV can park there between 9am to 7pm to charge his vehicle, but can only do it for a maximum of 4 hours within that time. So if you turn up to charge at 6pm, you can only charge for one hour.

3.Outside the hours permitting anybody to charge their EV, only permit holders with an EV can do so, and don't have a limit in those hours.

The yellow sign points out that the vehicle must be charging when parked there, it cannot just be used as a parking bay despite it being an EV.

The only thing I would take issue with is "actively charging". What does it mean; the vehicle must be not just coupled up to the charger, but must be drawing current, or just coupled-up ?  If the former, the implication is that the driver must sit with the vehicle the whole time to make sure he knows when it's charged so he can avoid a PCN for not charging.

10
Don't forget to point out the photo of the sign the CEO took is on the other side of the street.

11
So here are the "Buses Only" signs that you passed:-
https://maps.app.goo.gl/d2gYeCqM94EEV1Z18
You say you turned left into the street, so there should be an advance sign as the actual restriction signs will be edge-on for a left turn approad. And indeed there is a prominent sign in the format we like to see that doesn't rely on road names: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BEF5c4YZ3ANLsLHU8

I have to say I'm puzzled as to how you could have missed seeing this. The presence of this sign makes any reps you submit based on not seeing signs, not very strong, or even totally weak, I'm afraid.

12
Quote
They have repeatedly asked me for details of the previous keeper, but I do not have those details because it was a private Facebook Marketplace sale.
So how did you handle the V5C transfer process, which requires you to fill in the new owner details ? Also see Section 12 of the V5C on what you must do as a registered keeper.

13
Thanks all for your help and guidance. I've now submitted my Reps, slightly amended from my draft above so I could make reference to the 88 day delay between alleged contravention and PCN issue (albeit it via the leasing company in the first instance).

I'll be back with an update but given that a) I didn't fail to comply with a one-way restriction and b) the excessive notice delay, I can only expect an early positive outcome - barring any devilment on behalf of the issuing council... in which case it will be appealed
Don't expect them to roll over and cancel because they won't. London councils ruthlessly game the system to maximise their income by refusing all reps however valid they are. Basically, people are ignorant of parking and traffic law detail, so if reps are refused, >95% of people then just cough-up to get the discount. People are also terrified of going to adjudication, thinking it will cost them a packet of money, whereas the maximum amount possible is the full PCN penalty, there being no other costs whatsoever.

14
Ah yes, Regulation 10 PCN, so no Notice to Owner, next step is Traffic Penalty Tribunal, I think, because Thurrock is not within London Tribunals sphere for adjudications.

15
Please post a GSV link to the exact location. If GSV is too out-of-date to show the signs, let us know.

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