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Messages - tamer316

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1
Fair enough, that's good advice, it did take me on a wild goose chase so I'm glad I found this forum.

Yes I am the registered keeper and my address is up to date, so I shall post back here once I get the NTO, thanks again!

2
@tincombe full disclaimer these were suggestions made by chatgpt, but your response makes more sense, I'll get rid of these and incorporate your suggestions, just gonna wait for the NTO now and take it from there, thanks again for all the help, you've been very helpful

3
Thank you both, here is a draft response I intend to send when I do receive the NTO, any suggestions for improvement welcome

**FORMAL REPRESENTATIONS AGAINST NOTICE TO OWNER**

**Penalty Charge Notice:** AO10765530
**Vehicle Registration:** YP13HNF

I make these formal representations on the ground that **the alleged contravention did not occur**. In the alternative, I submit that the Council failed to properly consider my informal representations.

### 1. The restriction was not adequately signed

When I parked my vehicle, there was no upright traffic sign indicating that the bay was reserved for car club vehicles.

The only marking present was the carriageway legend "CAR CLUB ONLY". The upright sign that would ordinarily identify the bay had been removed, leaving only an empty sign socket/post at the location.

I specifically raised the absence of signage in my informal challenge. In response, the Council did not state that an upright sign was present, nor did it produce any photograph of such a sign. Instead, it merely stated that there were road markings explaining that the bay was for people with a car club permit.

The issue is not whether road markings existed. The issue is whether the restriction was **adequately conveyed** to a reasonably diligent motorist. In the circumstances of this case, where the upright sign had been removed, I do not believe that the restriction was adequately indicated.

### 2. Failure to properly consider my representations

My informal challenge clearly stated that there was **no signage around the parking space** indicating it was a permit bay and that the Council's own photographs did not show any such sign.

The Council's rejection did not address this point. It did not state that an upright sign existed, identify where it was located, or explain why its absence was immaterial. Instead, it issued what appears to be a generic response referring only to the carriageway markings and the requirement to display a permit.

This does not demonstrate that the Council genuinely considered the substance of my representations.

### 3. Request for evidence

If the Council maintains that the contravention occurred, I require it to provide:

* photographs clearly showing the upright traffic sign serving the bay on the date of the alleged contravention;
* the CEO's complete contemporaneous notes;
* the complete photographic record taken by the CEO;
* confirmation of when the upright sign was last inspected;
* any maintenance or defect records relating to the missing sign; and
* a plan identifying the location of the sign relied upon by the Council.

If no upright sign was present on the date of the alleged contravention, I ask the Council to explain why it considers the restriction to have been adequately conveyed despite the removal of the sign.

### Conclusion

For the reasons set out above, I respectfully request that the Notice to Owner and the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.

Should the Council reject these representations, I request that it addresses each of the points raised individually and provides the evidence requested so that I may properly consider an appeal to the independent adjudicator.

4
Thanks so much @stamfordman so yeah there were definitely no signs similar to this anywhere near the bay at the time I was parked, and the photos taken for the pcn don't appear to show any either, you can see the empty pole next to my car where I guess the sign should've gone.

5
thanks so much for getting back to me @tincombe much appreciated
That's good to hear, so I guess I should just wait for the NTO to arrive and take it from there?
I will post a draft response here in a bit if you don't mind for feedback, thanks again

6
Hello,

I have received a PCN from Ealing council: Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required in Woodville Road W5

There were only road markings that say Car Club Only, and there appears to be a socket with a missing sign next to the bay which I thought invalidates the restriction.

I have sent the following appeal:

Hello, I'm quite surprised by this PCN as there is no signage around the parking spot to indicate that this is a permit space and I also note the lack of indication of such in the photos taken for this alleged offence. Having checked the nearby signs the only parking restrictions I saw were Monday to Friday, 9:00 AM – 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM – 4:00 PM of which I'm clearly not violating having parked there at 8PM. In light of this I please ask you to cancel this PCN Many thanks

And the council sent back a rejection with the following:

Traffic Management Act 2004
Penalty Charge Notice: AO10765530
Date of Contravention: 26/07/2026 at 20:28
Location of Contravention: Woodville Road (W5)
Nature of Contravention: 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual
permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required
Vehicle Registration Mark: YP13HNF
NOTICE OF DECLINE OF CHALLENGE
Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
We have carefully considered your challenge, however have decided not to cancel your PCN.
There are road markings where you parked that explains that the bay you parked in is for
people with a car club permit.
You were issued a PCN for parking without a car club permit that was both valid and clearly
displayed. Even if you have a car club permit, you have to display it so that a Civil Enforcement
Officer (CEO) can see all its details.
Please note, if no times are shown then this means the bay is enforced 24/7.
It is the drivers responsibility to ensure they have parked correctly before leaving their vehicle
unattended to avoid parking contraventions.



Do you think I should challenge this further on the basis that the upright sign was missing or are the council right in saying the road marking is sufficient?

Thanks a lot for any help.

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