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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Navsw6 on November 20, 2023, 09:01:26 pm

Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Navsw6 on December 23, 2023, 04:29:17 pm
Thank you. The other number cannot help with PCNs though I was told I can call 0343 222 3333 on Tuesday and they will be open which surprises me. Shame there is no other way to contact them
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: John U.K. on December 23, 2023, 03:39:42 pm
According to
https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/24/how-to-contact-tfl-by-phone-email-social-media-and-post-16884679/

TfL do not appear to have a public e-mail address.
That leaves you with 0343 222 3333 or 0343 222 1234

As HCA says, get confirmation of 'promises' by e-mail.

I'd start along the lines of Worried I had not had a reply to my PCN reps, I checked online to discover a NoR had been issued on 13th.Dec..... etc.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Navsw6 on December 23, 2023, 02:49:23 pm
Thanks for all the rapid responses; very much appreciated.

They are unfortunately closed today - only open Monday to Friday and so I will need to wait until Wednesday now at the earliest. Is there an email address I can contact them on does anyone know please? At least if I can send an email I can delay the 14 days?

Worth a shot?
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: H C Andersen on December 23, 2023, 02:25:40 pm
Why shouldn't the OP cross this bridge if they come to it?

Asking cannot be a detriment to their current situation, surely.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Hippocrates on December 23, 2023, 02:17:31 pm
If they have sent the NOR, and you ask for it again, they may well tell you to make a Subject Access Request.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: H C Andersen on December 23, 2023, 12:26:14 pm
?

Sadly there are 3 options, not 2.

1. It never arrives.
2. It does arrive.
3. Contact TfL now.

IMO, 2 and 3 are linked.

Can't recommend 1 because it's speculative and high risk.

If it arrives late, you won't be able to prove as such and as the 14-day extended discount would probably have expired (arrives later than 27th because TfL's website says your reps rejected on 13th) then you'd have no choice but to appeal with the full penalty in play.
I don't understand waiting(hoping?)it won't arrive because all this would do would be to cause you to engage with the OfR process which at best would lead to TfL sending you a copy of the NOR and probably extending the discount whereas if you engage with TfL now and explain then if they sent a copy today you'd at least have 4 days to review their NOR. (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/penalty-charge-notices/enforcement-process)
NB. if you phone them and receive any verbal commitments then you MUST confirm in writing by email. Never take verbal assurances.

If you can't contact them today then the decision to wait is made for you until next week at least.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Hippocrates on December 23, 2023, 12:13:19 pm
I would advise option 1.  Do nothing.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: John U.K. on December 23, 2023, 12:06:28 pm
Therefore NoR deemed served 15th and would have given you 28 days to pay or appeal to LT.

As I see it (the experts here will correct me if I'm wrong) you have a choice

1) stick to the process - if it never arrives, wait for the Charge Certificate, then the Order for Recovery, then get it set aside on grounds of made representation but no response received.

Or

2) step outside process and ask TfL to e-mail or re-send a copy of the NoR.

I can see nothing is lost by asking when they re-open.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Hippocrates on December 23, 2023, 12:03:41 pm
Thanks for the clarification.  You still do not have any primary evidence though.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Navsw6 on December 23, 2023, 11:44:29 am
Like I said, I had a look at TFL PCN site using PCN ref and car registration details and it says 13 December representation rejected…you can look too
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Hippocrates on December 23, 2023, 11:16:07 am
Quote from: Navsw6 on December 23, 2023, 10:54:35 am
13 December I believe…

How do you come to this conclusion?
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Navsw6 on December 23, 2023, 10:54:35 am
13 December I believe…
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: John U.K. on December 23, 2023, 10:50:53 am
Date of apparent rejection?
They have to reject by post, but post can be erratic at this time of year.

Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Navsw6 on December 23, 2023, 10:02:00 am
Hi

I understand that my representation may have been rejected. But I have not had an official communication about this (email, letter, etc). Am I meant to get a formal notification? I happened to have a look at the TFL PCN site and it looks as though the representation has been rejected.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Navsw6 on November 28, 2023, 07:34:42 am
Thank you. That is very much appreciated.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: cp8759 on November 25, 2023, 01:35:03 pm
I'll add that if TFL rejects, I'm happy to represent you at the tribunal.
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Navsw6 on November 24, 2023, 12:15:40 am
Thanks for the draft response. Has anyone got anything else to add please?
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: cp8759 on November 21, 2023, 09:53:41 pm
Draft reps:

Dear Transport for London,

The alleged contravention did not occur. It is quite obvious from the video that my vehicle could have proceeded in lane 1, and there was no stationary traffic in lane 1 that prevented it from doing so.

It follows that the alleged contravention did not occur and the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully
Title: Re: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Incandescent on November 20, 2023, 09:45:30 pm
The contravention is that you have to stop due to the presence of stationary vehicles.  I'm not sure the video really shows this. It shows you stopping because you were not sure if you could get round the corner and not hit the car in Lane 2, so being a bit over-cautious. Your intended lane (Lane 1),  being free.
Title: TFL: Yellow box alleged contravention - Talgarth Rd/Gliddon Rd LBHF
Post by: Navsw6 on November 20, 2023, 09:01:26 pm
 I have received a PCN from TFL in Talgarth Rd (A4)/Gliddon Road which occurred on 28/10/2023 at 1040 hours

I am aware that you can enter a yellow box junction to turn right but was unaware the same does not apply turning left. I’d be grateful for any thoughts on how to submit an appeal on this PCN around the following points:

1. Whilst the still images do appear that I entered the YBJ I don’t believe that I was obstructing any traffic. As I was on the far left lane traffic could still pass behind me. Similarly I don’t believe I was a risk to pedestrians or any other road users

2. Is it legitimate grounds to state that I was turning left and that the only reason that I appear to enter the YBJ is that there is a pedestrian crossing on the A4 which hold traffic up for a short period of time, I am aware that this is a weak argument.

3. Are there any other arguments worth making?

The video link is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZiWtXidWY.

The clip is quite long (5 minutes) but you can see the alleged contravention around the 2mins 34s mark.

Thanks in advance for all your help. Very happy to answer questions or queries and appreciate everyone’s help.

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