Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Vada_nevada on January 27, 2026, 07:56:12 pm
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@stamfordman Do you have any case details allowed regarding just one sign really far from the place of alleged contravention. I have checked cp's magic list but cannot find one to fit. I refer to TSM Chapter Three p. 198 from memory.
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While it can be worth a punt on CPZs generally as there are more than a few cases allowed at the tribunal on inadequate info from the EA in the pack, if we're going to make a specific claim we need to get the evidence in the early days of the PCN.
I've checked several signs (parking/moving traffic) near me for a number of cases. But Kingston is not my manor - far from it. So all we can do without a site visit is check council CPZ maps and street view signage on the route.
Some OPs are of course highly motivated to check themselves.
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@Incandescent @stamfordman
I apologise to you both as I have now got to the bottom of the Bittoms problem!
The letters refer to the wrong zone.
Video to follow.
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Dear Councillor Nardelli
I write to you in your capacity as the person with portfolio and apparently with oversight of this department.
You will note that I have offered on many occasions to advise your officers re their errors which have fallen upon deaf ears.
I won a bus lane case last week because one Macey Briggs etc did not know the law even though I spelt it out to her and her colleagues. To put it mildly, the people who work for you constitute a motley crew exhibiting incompetence - yet power. You may well take this as "abusive behaviour". That is your prerogative. However, your officers' conduct amounts to illegality and unjust enrichment. This is an abuse of motorists.
With regards to this statement:
Please be advised that the location in question falls within a clearly mark Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ). Signs to the CPZ are placed at all entry points, and these signs indicate the restriction times from 8:30am to 6:30pm from Monday to Saturday.
This is a lie. I have driven around the whole of Kingston town centre this evening and have incontrovertible proof to the contrary as photographed by and with Major Boothroyd (Q) as a witness. He is a retired solicitor and won costs against your council some years ago due to wholly unreasonable conduct.
Unless you reimburse everyone who has received a PCN at this location for how many years - I do not expect you to release the figures in light of your current modus operandi - I shall be taking the matter further.
For the avoidance of doubt, I require that my PCN be cancelled forthwith. Should you not agree, matters will progress.
Yours sincerely
James Bond
P.S.: Why have you erected a Bus Lane warning sign on exit from The Bittoms when there is no bus lane on turning left? This is yet another example of your department's general incompetence. Please also refer to my issue with the twisted no right turn sign on Kingston Road.
P.P.S.: I would also refer you to the Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance concerning the duty of CEOs to inspect signage.
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I really am annoyed at the advice given on this thread and, if I do not get PCNs reimbursed, the authors should consider offering a portion of the amount paid to the OP. Google images are wholly irrelevant - and wrong.
If I gave wrong advice, I would apologise and offer payment as recompense. This happened on pepipoo 4 years ago re a Maidstone case and I managed to rescue the situation. It was a topic of conversation between cp8759 and me and others in October 2022 when we first met.
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Bus lane case: Case reference 2250690692
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I cannot say anymore as it is before 9 p.m. :-X
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That is correct, I paid that fine as the discount was re-offered and most people on the thread advised there re no chances to push this further. Thank you.
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It has been paid and I misunderstood that a NOR had been served. Some advice on this thread has not been up to the usual standard. I drove to the location and there are NO CPZ signs at all near to or even far from the said location. Or even in the direction of it.
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As I understand it, a NTO has yet to be served.
The re-offered discount period in the initial rejection would have expired and so the OP loses nothing by waiting for the NTO. Paying at this stage seems pointless.
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This should have been taken to the Tribunal.
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Good afternoon all,
Please could anyone advise if this case is worth fighting for and there is a solid line of defense? Thank you.
My view is that success at London Tribunals is not a 'dead cert'. You're only argument is the lack of repeater signs in what is a large CPZ. It could win, but you must decide if it is worth risking the extra £70
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Good afternoon all,
Please could anyone advise if this case is worth fighting for and there is a solid line of defense? Thank you.
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They have re-offered the discount.
Why do you think you have a strong enough case to risk this?
Entry signage has been shown, so your only substantive argument would seem to be one of zone size. If you can find a body of evidence which is couched in numerical terms e.g. adjudicators more often than not accept this argument if a zone exceeds X sq miles/Y streets etc, then you might think it worthwhile continuing.
There are always prospective procedural irregularities, but you(the registered keeper) have to risk £70 to find out.
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i am supposed to be retired but as an exception will deal with it.
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Thank you. That is tricky for me to understand the exact wording. Could you assist with the draft for defense?
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That was bound to be the response - you had to put them to defending the CPZ signage and zone size.
You can still do this at NTO stage.
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Hi everyone. I have just received a rejection letter following my informal appeal dated 11 Feb.
I used Phillip’s line of defense saying there were no signs restricting parking on single yellow.
See attached for the rejection.
https://storage.to/FuDDUNCQd
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There are actually two signs, one each side of the carriageway
https://maps.app.goo.gl/USghtXjm9AF632tJ7
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We established earlier that the CPZ entry sign is here:
(https://i.ibb.co/QF6XRMjP/Screenshot-2026-02-06-at-16-58-20.png)
The challenge is on the sign being on a busy road (so easily missed) in a large zone.
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Good afternoon. Please could anyone advise the draft for appeal if available?
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There is no Controlled Parking Zone sign at all. So, the contravention did not occur. I entered the road twice.
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This PCN was issued on 27 January, please see the link below:
https://storage.to/FhOjUDEge
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Please could you advise when would you be able to assist with this as I would hate to miss the deadline for the appeal:(
There is no deadline for appeal as such. These, informal reps, may be made and are required to be considered at any time prior to a Notice to Owner being served which cannot occur until after 28 days, hence where '28 days' comes from. However, if informal reps are submitted before the discount expires then the discount is normally held.
The PCN, which we haven't seen(for reasons set out earlier), was served on ??
We need to look at procedure(the PCN) as well as the contravention, so pl visit the READ THIS FIRST message on the main page of the forum to see how to do this.
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I will take a look today. Sorry as I am retired - apparently. I did a concert many years ago at the tennis club.
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Thank you. I do not feel confident enough to write it down myself as not very technically knowledgeable.
If Phillip is overwhelmed I hope someone else on the thread would be willing to help out with a draft?
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Hi Phillip,
Please could you advise when would you be able to assist with this as I would hate to miss the deadline for the appeal:(
I think Phillip is a bit overwhelmed at the moment. I too find posting advice now taking me into the small hours, (don't worry too much as I am retired), but there are few regulars on here now and lots of PCNs to look at.
So if Phillip doesn't come on here soon, don't miss the appeal deadline, and if necessary, submit reps based on what I posted, namely the vast extent of the CPZ, totally against all guidance, with no repeater signs are are recommended for CPZ that are larger than normal.
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Hi Phillip,
Please could you advise when would you be able to assist with this as I would hate to miss the deadline for the appeal:(
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I will retrace the route and take a look today as I have a full tank. 8)
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Thank you. I am definitely up for the appeal. How do we define who has won similar cases? I emailed Phillip Morgan yesterday to get his attention in case he can advise the best course of action.
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As you are leaving the bridge, and before passing under the 'tunnel', there are these signs: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/X8zNRyQFDHHrkQH99.
Miles away from where you parked, of course. This is very naughty of KuT council, because a CPZ is not recommended for more than a few streets, but they get away with it, I'm afraid. They should at least put up some repeater signs like Coventry have done for instance. (Centre of Coventry is one vast zone within the ring road). Basically, in the London area, if something looks too good to be true, then it is too good to be true.
Here is their website page where you can type in a street and it'll give you the zone you are in: -
https://www.kingston.gov.uk/parking/parking-zones?search_api_fulltext=the+bittoms
You were parked in Zone A and A1, Kingston Town Centre. Does the response also tell you the restricted times ? Of course not, that would make it too easy wouldn't it !
If it were me I'd submit reps on the basis of totally inadequate signage, and point out the vast size of the CPZ which is totally against all guidance. The distance from the signs on the bridge to The Bittoms where you parked is nearly 1.35 miles ! Of course they'll reject them, but at least they'll have to do at least some work for their money. I don't think this is worth a trip to London Tribunals unless somebody on here can come up with a 'technical' appeal, based on their mismanagement of the enforcement process. These can win on their own, and have done quite a few times.
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Please see the link attached.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9Z5x7SJPNYU4PDPj6?g_st=ic
Thank you.
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Controlled parking zones need only zone entry signs.
If you give me the exact route - the roads you used- I can check if the signage is reasonable.
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I travelled from Lensbury park Teddington to Bittoms car park and parked opposite. I have parked there before and also seen many cars parked there on a few occasions. I would expect on that side of the road to have a sign if the parking is not permitted.
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Sorry - route to where you parked. I can't find a decent CPZ map. You will have passed zone entry sign(s).
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“What was your route top where you parked?”
I am not sure I understand this question, please rephrase.
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Please advise what else I should use to access the PCN?
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Your link leads to a site which requires signing in, which some of those here are loathe to do.
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You have to suspect you are in a controlled parking zone if a single yellow has no sign.
What was your route top where you parked?
(https://i.ibb.co/3YvqCNdD/k1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/nTJydNJ/k2.jpg)
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Hi all,
I parked on single yellow line with no signs nearby restricting me from parking. I saw the officer as he has finished giving me the ticket and challenged on the reasons, he said the other drivers had a blue badge and I could not park there. I asked for the specific sign showing that I am in the wrong and he just mentioned the zone that I entered in Kingston? Please advise if I have a chance to stand up my grounds.
Thank you.
https://we.tl/t-di1e70FGkf