Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: tommytbone on January 19, 2026, 09:36:09 pm
-
Yes both under my name
-
Still waiting for the NTO to come through. Thanks again for all your help here. I'll update again once i receive it.
The NtO is sent to the name and address on your V5C. Is this up-to-date and the same as when the PCN was served ?
-
Still waiting for the NTO to come through. Thanks again for all your help here. I'll update again once i receive it.
-
There is no traffic management purpose to the PCN too so you can in their statutory duty to act fairly in the public interest.
-
Thanks for getting back,
Yeah, seems they are covered here as my estate is stated at the bottom of that page under off street parking "STOCKSFIELD ESTATE (ACCESS FROM STOCKSFIELD ROAD E17) the whole off-street parking and access areas - except for 94 parking bays"
But yeah, if we think they should be showing this through signage onsite I'm happy to proceed with the challenge. I want to fight them to be honest, this was a ridiculous way to treat residents but i prefer going for it when there some hope for sticking it to them
-
That's an unhelpful reply to say the least.
Actually this is the email address to ask for traffic orders:
traffic.scheme@walthamforest.gov.uk
But this suggests they are solid on parking in bay markings:
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3864851
Parking outside or incorrectly within the boundary of a parking bay or parking place would result in a contravention and the issue of a Penalty Charge Notice.
But there is no terms board.
If you're happy to have the full penalty in play I'd wait for the NTO but I expect they'll reoffer the discount if they reject again.
-
Hi Stamfordman/all,
They just curtailed the request. Looks like it's going to next stage
Here's their response:
Dear Mr Evans
Traffic Management Act 2004
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) Number: FR67606846
Vehicle Registration Number: PY60KGA
Contravention Date and Time: 19/01/2026 at 12:33
Contravention Location: Stocksfield Road Estate E17
PCN Code and Description: 86 Not parked correctly within the markings of a bay or
space
I refer to your correspondence in connection with the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) as
mentioned above.
When your informal representation was rejected, our letter advised you how to make an
appeal to the independent adjudicator if you wanted to take the matter further. This can only
happen after the registered keeper of the vehicle receives the Notice to Owner (NtO). At that
stage the charge will be at the full amount of £110.00.
You have now written again to the council and I regret that we cannot deal with further
correspondence at this stage. The Traffic Management Act 2004 lays down firm procedures
for processing parking penalties and if you wish to take the matter further you will need to
wait for the NtO which will be sent to you shortly if you are the registered keeper.
New data protection laws apply from 25 May 2018. To find out why the Council needs to
collect and store personal data, how this is used and your rights to access your information,
please refer to our Privacy Policy which can be found on our website at
https://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/council-and-elections/your-data-and-privacy/our-privacy-
notices/parking-services-privacy-notice
Equalities Act 2010 - should you have a disability and require a reasonable adjustment to
complete either making a payment or a challenge against a PCN, please email
parking.services@walthamforest.gov.uk or telephone 0203 092 0112 and select option 6.
Yours sincerely
M Main
On Behalf of Parking Services
London Borough of Waltham Forest
-
Thanks @Standfordman
I'll email back with the below:
To whom it may concern ,
In response to your correspondence and defence raised:
Could you provide me with the off street order for this car park,
Also, can you indicate to me where the terms and conditions notice is in this car park.
-
Yes I guess so.
Ask them for the off street order for the car park, and where the terms and conditions notice in the car park.
-
Via email? I have one to send responses to
-
There's no car park management purpose to enforcing this and there is no off-street car park signage.
Ask them for the off-street order.
-
That was quick - please post up a copy of the rejection.
I know, at 5.45pm too .. working late grinding their grift
-
They rejected the challenge. Didnt even acknowledge the lack of signage for off street terms.
Wonder what your thoughts are regarding taking further?
Thanks in advance
Pics below:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNow6sP-Z7eXiQnVXesnfFRKQzWM-GM6vxPA2u6yyreTMyzKWAbTEwoIWgwgQEkuTm2yPeb3kHftuSxTd5MIeeq6mAPOUlIrc3AvCIZ0mnKCI_ETzJYhcZo8Kg_a-SKoEUhc_IxVcsRpcfHaxSiXW40NQ=w632-h1370-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczM2HJbkjE9-ETCIHDui1nWWcfPD3KqWB6EF4MNajfdyTml82UytI86CkLvHqBfbkSoQTtoUiqkTI8kss3i9vXkqJJtB0nhMWuiPdCIMcRv7OP3YPNPMEeI-g31-4dXch0O-VtJui4-klHScYywXuNx5Pw=w632-h1370-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
-
That was quick - please post up a copy of the rejection.
-
1. Contravention did not occur – inadequate signage and unclear terms
Change to:
1. Contravention did not occur – no car park terms and conditions at location
The orders you posted refer to a parent order - I can't find that, but it probably contains the requirement to park in bay markings. If this goes to the tribunal they would have to produce that but in our off-street cases we have long noted that the order itself must be cited at the location along with contraventions that can give rise to penalties as per the order.
They rejected the challenge
-
1. Contravention did not occur – inadequate signage and unclear terms
Change to:
1. Contravention did not occur – no car park terms and conditions at location
The orders you posted refer to a parent order - I can't find that, but it probably contains the requirement to park in bay markings. If this goes to the tribunal they would have to produce that but in our off-street cases we have long noted that the order itself must be cited at the location along with contraventions that can give rise to penalties as per the order.
That's great. thanks so much for this once again. I'll get it submitted now. I cant find that order too, but happy to go further in the challenge if needed.
I'll update thread with their response.
-
1. Contravention did not occur – inadequate signage and unclear terms
Change to:
1. Contravention did not occur – no car park terms and conditions at location
The orders you posted refer to a parent order - I can't find that, but it probably contains the requirement to park in bay markings. If this goes to the tribunal they would have to produce that but in our off-street cases we have long noted that the order itself must be cited at the location along with contraventions that can give rise to penalties as per the order.
-
So no council car park terms.
Draft a challenge - make two points.
Contravention did not occur. For an off-street contravention the terms of the car park must be displayed including what can be penalised and no such terms are posted at the location.
The alleged contravention is at the end of the bay and parking places used to be set out diagonally. As a resident here for x years I simply made a trivial mistake on autopilot according to the old layout and did not take any space in an adjoining bay.
Thanks so much for your help here @stamfordman. Does this sound ok? Used ai as not my forte
I wish to challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur.
1. Contravention did not occur – inadequate signage and unclear terms
The alleged contravention is an off-street parking contravention under Code 86: “Not parked correctly within the markings of a bay or space.”
For an off-street car park, the terms and conditions of use — including what constitutes a contravention and what may be enforced by way of a penalty — must be clearly displayed at the location. At this site, there is no signage setting out the parking terms or explaining how bays must be used or what constitutes incorrect parking for the purposes of enforcement.
In the absence of clearly displayed terms and conditions governing the use of parking bays, the authority has not properly conveyed the restriction, and therefore the alleged contravention cannot be said to have occurred.
2. Trivial deviation / de minimis
The allegation relates to parking at the end of a bay. Historically, parking bays at this location were marked diagonally. As a resident of approximately [X] years, I parked out of habit in accordance with the former layout.
Any deviation from the current bay markings was minimal and entirely unintentional. Crucially, my vehicle did not encroach into or prevent the use of any adjoining bay, nor did it cause obstruction or inconvenience. The vehicle was parked wholly within the available parking area.
Given the trivial nature of the deviation, the principle of de minimis applies, and enforcement under Code 86 in these circumstances is disproportionate.
For the reasons above, I respectfully request that the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
-
So no council car park terms.
Draft a challenge - make two points.
Contravention did not occur. For an off-street contravention the terms of the car park must be displayed including what can be penalised and no such terms are posted at the location.
The alleged contravention is at the end of the bay and parking places used to be set out diagonally. As a resident here for x years I simply made a trivial mistake on autopilot according to the old layout and did not take any space in an adjoining bay.
-
Hopefully the above helps add more local detail
-
There's a sign on the side of the building beside the 'No Flytipping' notice, but it's not possible to read it on Google maps.
Here's images of those signs. They are historic from old parking rules when managed by Ascham Homes, who havent managed the building for 10 years or so.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMydAgGKB9_NsZ9NICmSbkPG-2WkyKYaUFL09zYBw2wPQ2TsCYXrp52ETNYZ6Brp7ZWdNqJhZf5tJrhH4QKyH5qAAhF2N1KiFP6fRTEy-z5rsQ3tbmelpwHb3PpRWidQtBWvc4df5hNDmgbdx38EymRsQ=w1028-h1370-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczO7qCTl64aJ5ivs06zXm8p9jvE8tq2ObRL0eZ1W-EzRQ3th9tgli7pV7i-WbL7-ehK-xcMbqJgio5mYOImAcPmGhjONHi5JUksIyom_Z7LlNciZaRvXjLWGA3bvnwojv0j5RvEmRcf4tmcT4lZclJJZJw=w1028-h1370-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
-
Really is. Literally just paid £75 for a parking permit too last week. I also pay an extortionate amount in flat service charges, then come out to your car outside the flat and get greeted with this.
-
I have to say its a money-grubbing PCN ! What conceivable traffic management problem is it addressing ? The space to the left of the car is not a bay and can't be.
-
There's a sign on the side of the building beside the 'No Flytipping' notice, but it's not possible to read it on Google maps.
I'll get a picture tomorrow
-
Thanks so much for your input here.
I've found some of the documents from when the area was adopted by the council resident parking scheme.
https://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-10/T52b%2823%29%20-%20Made%20Traffic%20Orders%20%28TMO%29%20-%20WSN%20extn%20off%20street.pdf
https://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-10/T52%2823%29%20-%20Notice%20of%20Making%20%28NoM%29%20-%20WSN%20extn.pdf
There's more consultation docs on https://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/roads-and-pavements/road-traffic-schemes-closed-consultations
Under section '52b(23) Housing estates:
WSN CPZ extension into off street parking areas off Stocksfield Road, permit holders only (made orders, proposed orders 20 July 2023)"
Sorry if this is too much! Permits are all digital now, so don't have any terms I can find on the Ring-go app
-
There's a sign on the side of the building beside the 'No Flytipping' notice, but it's not possible to read it on Google maps.
-
What are the terms of your permit. Anything about how and where you need to park?
The road is in a controlled parking zone and usually they wouldn't allow on-street permit holders to park in an off-street estate and vice versa.
-
They've given an off-street contravention which means you were in a car park, and that's confirmed by their on-street traffic order map which shows nothing but a gap there.
But a car park must have a terms board telling you what conditions apply to park there and what penalties there could be, and there doesn't seem to be one.
What's also odd is that the permit parking sign seems to be the same as the one opposite, which is on-street - can you park there too with your permit?
(https://i.ibb.co/bMGm17Cn/Screenshot-2026-01-19-at-22-25-52.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/Gf92QpB9/Screenshot-2026-01-19-at-22-18-43.png)
Interesting. and Yes, the same permit for all streets in the area 'Wood street North' it's called.
The signs are the same yes, no further signs around for this little section
-
They've given an off-street contravention which means you were in a car park, and that's confirmed by their on-street traffic order map which shows nothing but a gap there.
But a car park must have a terms board telling you what conditions apply to park there and what penalties there could be, and there doesn't seem to be one.
What's also odd is that the permit parking sign seems to be the same as the one opposite, which is on-street - can you park there too with your permit?
(https://i.ibb.co/bMGm17Cn/Screenshot-2026-01-19-at-22-25-52.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/Gf92QpB9/Screenshot-2026-01-19-at-22-18-43.png)
-
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) Number: FR67606846
Vehicle Registration Number: PY60KGA
86 Not parked correctly within the markings of a bay or space
https://walthamocm.itsvc.co.uk/PCN/
Over zealous enforcement officer got me today. Can a PCN of this sort be challenged? Its the end bay with nothing but empty space after it and one tyre over the bay. I'm following the paving edge, not the white line (see my pic below or pics in the PCN).
A bit of context which make it even more frustrating - Outside our flats we have a rombus shaped area to park. These bays only started being managed by the council 2 years ago, and the white bays you see in the pics were added at this time. Before that, we had no bays and room for 10 cars to park, following the shape of the area and cars parking diagonally filling up the rombus shaped area (i hope that makes sense).
Since the council took over the space (after a consultation with (naive) residents they got the majority) they painted in new white bays perpendicular to top edge - which left 9 spaces and two dead areas on either end.
Basically on the first space i've turned in following my year long muscle memory of following the shape of the paving stone edging not the new white bays and my passenger side rear wheel is over the white line. Never been a problem in last 2 years but this officer got me today.
What do you think? Any other details/advice would be greatly appreciated.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOAKJShyGXKOttIS7D7h_xg6dvd0sOjLXNkVDr9g9oavVTmazQrLflIaLiV9fPOcAEXnSuijaTVcCKKi0csL3GxIxn0husLOBtgVkraRzyXU3xDW5u083w71UOik9cuMrp5SJt3CaLU99dLIWJM_Ldzcw=w1028-h1370-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOLiO1irqtdxIN3BFAM64jCVXGBr_AMq7YVBbecp4w5Ea_IBT8B-U7SEqAVrNZ94Q_GpPb9Z882LKZuH6NWuw56ETBCyNEUtdEhBcsKYwkcZ4Ix_ibooIfLosXK25H3xCrq4BV9V_OOOzf-9LWb-Bn7lg=w1028-h1370-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
Here's the streetview of the first parking bay I used: https://maps.app.goo.gl/GfaZ3PRSbkJVoJck9