Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Never_Enough on December 27, 2025, 03:13:32 pm

Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: DWMB2 on January 05, 2026, 02:44:37 pm
Worth uploading nonetheless, so that we've got a record of everything on this thread, 2 letters of claim for the same incident is somewhat unusual.

Same PCN reference number?

If you receive written confirmation the charge is cancelled then you don't need to take further action.

Apologies re. my prior references to appeals, I realise you're past that point - getting my threads mixed up!
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: Never_Enough on January 05, 2026, 01:31:09 pm
I could show it again, but it is literally word for word, page  for page the exact same letter as the previous one  with the only difference one stating 19th December and the other 23rd December, both say within 30 days of this date.

So even if I receive confirmation with the hospital I should still send that  template  written  as a reply to my OP correct?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: Never_Enough on January 03, 2026, 02:00:52 pm
Yes. Email is the preferred method of communication. It is instant and you have proof of sending and receipt. Uses no paper, only electrons.

I will ask the hospital for Email confirmation on Monday then.


If I get this do I still send the template letter above or leave it? I have on problem with following that protocol as it sounds very good I just dont want to do anything that appears t contradict the hospital squashing it anyway.

Incidentally I have received the EXACT same letter again today for the exact same PCN except this is dated 4 days later. Any idea why that has happened? Its the same PCN not another.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: b789 on January 01, 2026, 10:02:30 pm
Yes. Email is the preferred method of communication. It is instant and you have proof of sending and receipt. Uses no paper, only electrons.
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: Never_Enough on January 01, 2026, 04:59:52 pm
"Spoke" to the hospital? A conversation is not worth the paper it isn't written on. Either get confirmation in writing that they are gong to get the PCN cancelled, otherwise carry on as advised.

Is Email good enough? They said they would send me an Email confirming this.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: b789 on December 30, 2025, 02:55:22 am
"Spoke" to the hospital? A conversation is not worth the paper it isn't written on. Either get confirmation in writing that they are gong to get the PCN cancelled, otherwise carry on as advised.
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: Never_Enough on December 29, 2025, 10:48:29 pm
It doesn’t, technically, change anything. The fact remains that a PoFA compliant NtK was never delivered to you, the Keeper, within the relevant period.

Yes, it is your responsibility to keep your V5C up to date with a valid address for service. If any NIPs have been issued, that is a much more serious issue than a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking firm.

If it were to ever escalate to an actual hearing with a judge, it can be argued that ALL the provisions of PoFA have not been complied with and so there is no Keeper liability if the driver is not identified. The ONLY way the driver can be identified is if the Keeper does so. As there is absolutely no legal obligation to do so, there is then nothing they can do about it.

In most of these cases, the operator will press on all the way to a county court claim but will withdraw late in the proceedings, especially if the defendant shows resistance and is getting good advice. They much prefer low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree who are easily intimidated into paying out of ignorance and fear.

Once you have sent the advised response to the LoC, we will be able to see what they come back with and respond accordingly. CEL have just lost their in-house counsel and whilst he was never very good, barrister Wonga Wilson will not be missed by those of us who have to deal with the fallout of these bottom-dwelling people who fuel this unscrupulous industry.

So, carry on as advised. You can very easily update the address on your V5C online in minutes, but won’t make any difference to thus case now.

I  spoke to the hospital today and they said they would get the ticket quashed.

However should I still send the letter as advised in the first reply? Or just leave it for  now?  Just wondering if they will get two conflicting replies if I still send it and the hospital contact them to  cancel it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: Never_Enough on December 28, 2025, 10:28:03 am
V62: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-for-a-vehicle-registration-certificate
~

Thanks
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: RichardW on December 28, 2025, 08:27:09 am
V62: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/application-for-a-vehicle-registration-certificate
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: Never_Enough on December 28, 2025, 08:18:49 am
It doesn’t, technically, change anything. The fact remains that a PoFA compliant NtK was never delivered to you, the Keeper, within the relevant period.

Yes, it is your responsibility to keep your V5C up to date with a valid address for service. If any NIPs have been issued, that is a much more serious issue than a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking firm.

If it were to ever escalate to an actual hearing with a judge, it can be argued that ALL the provisions of PoFA have not been complied with and so there is no Keeper liability if the driver is not identified. The ONLY way the driver can be identified is if the Keeper does so. As there is absolutely no legal obligation to do so, there is then nothing they can do about it.

In most of these cases, the operator will press on all the way to a county court claim but will withdraw late in the proceedings, especially if the defendant shows resistance and is getting good advice. They much prefer low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree who are easily intimidated into paying out of ignorance and fear.

Once you have sent the advised response to the LoC, we will be able to see what they come back with and respond accordingly. CEL have just lost their in-house counsel and whilst he was never very good, barrister Wonga Wilson will not be missed by those of us who have to deal with the fallout of these bottom-dwelling people who fuel this unscrupulous industry.

So, carry on as advised. You can very easily update the address on your V5C online in minutes, but won’t make any difference to thus case now.

Thanks. Dont I need the physical logbook though? I lost it years ago.

Do youknow what form I need to fill ojut to get a new one I cant seem to find it easily.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: b789 on December 27, 2025, 10:57:06 pm
It doesn’t, technically, change anything. The fact remains that a PoFA compliant NtK was never delivered to you, the Keeper, within the relevant period.

Yes, it is your responsibility to keep your V5C up to date with a valid address for service. If any NIPs have been issued, that is a much more serious issue than a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking firm.

If it were to ever escalate to an actual hearing with a judge, it can be argued that ALL the provisions of PoFA have not been complied with and so there is no Keeper liability if the driver is not identified. The ONLY way the driver can be identified is if the Keeper does so. As there is absolutely no legal obligation to do so, there is then nothing they can do about it.

In most of these cases, the operator will press on all the way to a county court claim but will withdraw late in the proceedings, especially if the defendant shows resistance and is getting good advice. They much prefer low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree who are easily intimidated into paying out of ignorance and fear.

Once you have sent the advised response to the LoC, we will be able to see what they come back with and respond accordingly. CEL have just lost their in-house counsel and whilst he was never very good, barrister Wonga Wilson will not be missed by those of us who have to deal with the fallout of these bottom-dwelling people who fuel this unscrupulous industry.

So, carry on as advised. You can very easily update the address on your V5C online in minutes, but won’t make any difference to thus case now.
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: Never_Enough on December 27, 2025, 08:44:41 pm
Please confirm that your V5C is and was at the time up to date with your current address. Many people update their drivers licence when they move put fail to update their V5C at the same time. One does not automatically update the other.

If your address is definitely correct on the V5C and was at the time of the alleged contravention and you are adamant that you never received any windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD) at the time or any postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) then you can rebut their presumption of delivery in any appeal and put them to strict proof of posting by way of a 'proof of posting' certificate and that the correct postal address was used.

That aside, you must contact the hospital PALS service, not some random switchboard operator. The PALS service can get PCNs canceled and don't be fobbed off by them. There is NHS Trust guidance on parking that requires them to follow certain principles:

NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles)

Specifically the section on 'Contracted out parking'.

In the mean time, you can respond to the Letter of Claim (LoC) with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Your Letter Before Action – alleged unpaid Parking Charge Notice (PCN)
PCN reference: [insert]
Vehicle registration: [insert]
Date of incident: 1 September 2025
Location: Springfield Hospital, Lawn Lane, Springfield, Chelmsford, CM1 7GU

I write as the registered keeper. I dispute the debt in full.

I did not receive any prior correspondence whatsoever (no Notice to Driver on the windscreen and no postal Notice to Keeper). The first I have heard of any alleged PCN is your Letter Before Action. My vehicle is correctly registered at my current address and there is no reason that earlier letters should not have been delivered.

On the day in question, the vehicle’s registration number was entered into the hospital payment/validation machine by the driver on arrival. I am currently raising this with the hospital’s PALS service. In the meantime, you must treat this matter as a formal dispute and you must not issue proceedings while the dispute and document request below remain outstanding.

Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims – request for information/documents

So that I can understand your client’s position and respond properly, please provide the following:

1. A copy of the original PCN and any Notice to Keeper allegedly sent, including all pages.
2. Evidence of the date of posting for every letter you claim was sent (for example, proof of posting or equivalent) and confirmation of the full postal address used on each occasion.
3. All photographs and/or ANPR images relied upon, including the full unredacted time-stamped records and a copy of the ANPR entry/exit logs for that date.
4. A copy of the full payment/VRM terminal record for the relevant period, showing the VRM entries made (redacted for other vehicles if necessary), and any payment session records that your client contends were missing/invalid.
5. The contemporaneous signage plan and photographs of the signs as they were on 1 September 2025, including the entrance signs and the terms sign(s) relied upon, with the parking charge sum clearly legible.
6. The full unredacted contract/authorisation showing that the parking operator had authority at this site on the material date to issue PCNs and to pursue court proceedings in its own name.
7. A full breakdown of the amount claimed, identifying the original parking charge and each added sum, with an explanation and legal basis for any additional amounts over and above the parking charge (including any so-called “debt recovery” or “administration” fees).

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not accept any added sums beyond the parking charge (if any were ever properly incurred). Any attempt to recover additional fixed “debt recovery” sums will be treated as an attempt at double recovery and will be robustly opposed.

Hold on proceedings

Given that this is a disputed debt and I have requested documents essential to understanding your claim, you are required to place the matter on hold and provide the requested information. If you contend that you can proceed regardless, please explain precisely why, with reference to the Protocol.

Address for service

If you are holding or have used any address other than my correct address for service, treat this letter as a notification to rectify your records immediately. All future correspondence must be sent to this address and any other address must be erased:

[insert correct address]

If you issue a claim without first providing the information requested above and without allowing a reasonable period for me to consider it, I will draw that conduct to the court’s attention when costs are considered.

I look forward to your substantive response and the documents requested.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Postal address]
[Email address]

Also, make a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the DVLA to find out when they requested the Keeper details from them. Use this form (DVLA subject access request (SAR) MIS1065 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69494c30888ddc41b48a5484/make-a-subject-access-request-to-dvla-form-mis1065.pdf)) and email it to subjectaccess.requests@dvla.gov.uk. You only need to complete sections #1 and #3. For the box in section #1: "Tell us what specific information you need about your vehicles", enter the following:

Please provide details of all requests made for registered keeper data in respect of vehicle registration [VRM], including:
  – the name of the organisation or individual who requested the data,
  – the date and time of each request,
  – the reason stated for each request,
  – the legal basis relied upon (e.g. KADOE / reasonable cause),
  – and the address details disclosed by the DVLA in response to each request,
for the period 1 July 2025 to present.

Thanks. I have just realised something important. This was my other vehicle and I had not updated the logbook with my new address.

I almost never take that vehicle out for non work related driving so thats why I didnt even look properly at the plate.

This will be why this has happened then.

Does it change the other pasrt of what I need to do?

I am hoping the hospital will cancel it anyway they have told me to ring Monday and speak to the person you mentioned in your post.


I now have another concern that what if I have received  any  NIPs from this vehicle in the meantime.
Title: Re: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: b789 on December 27, 2025, 04:36:02 pm
Please confirm that your V5C is and was at the time up to date with your current address. Many people update their drivers licence when they move put fail to update their V5C at the same time. One does not automatically update the other.

If your address is definitely correct on the V5C and was at the time of the alleged contravention and you are adamant that you never received any windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD) at the time or any postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) then you can rebut their presumption of delivery in any appeal and put them to strict proof of posting by way of a 'proof of posting' certificate and that the correct postal address was used.

That aside, you must contact the hospital PALS service, not some random switchboard operator. The PALS service can get PCNs canceled and don't be fobbed off by them. There is NHS Trust guidance on parking that requires them to follow certain principles:

NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles)

Specifically the section on 'Contracted out parking'.

In the mean time, you can respond to the Letter of Claim (LoC) with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Your Letter Before Action – alleged unpaid Parking Charge Notice (PCN)
PCN reference: [insert]
Vehicle registration: [insert]
Date of incident: 1 September 2025
Location: Springfield Hospital, Lawn Lane, Springfield, Chelmsford, CM1 7GU

I write as the registered keeper. I dispute the debt in full.

I did not receive any prior correspondence whatsoever (no Notice to Driver on the windscreen and no postal Notice to Keeper). The first I have heard of any alleged PCN is your Letter Before Action. My vehicle is correctly registered at my current address and there is no reason that earlier letters should not have been delivered.

On the day in question, the vehicle’s registration number was entered into the hospital payment/validation machine by the driver on arrival. I am currently raising this with the hospital’s PALS service. In the meantime, you must treat this matter as a formal dispute and you must not issue proceedings while the dispute and document request below remain outstanding.

Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims – request for information/documents

So that I can understand your client’s position and respond properly, please provide the following:

1. A copy of the original PCN and any Notice to Keeper allegedly sent, including all pages.
2. Evidence of the date of posting for every letter you claim was sent (for example, proof of posting or equivalent) and confirmation of the full postal address used on each occasion.
3. All photographs and/or ANPR images relied upon, including the full unredacted time-stamped records and a copy of the ANPR entry/exit logs for that date.
4. A copy of the full payment/VRM terminal record for the relevant period, showing the VRM entries made (redacted for other vehicles if necessary), and any payment session records that your client contends were missing/invalid.
5. The contemporaneous signage plan and photographs of the signs as they were on 1 September 2025, including the entrance signs and the terms sign(s) relied upon, with the parking charge sum clearly legible.
6. The full unredacted contract/authorisation showing that the parking operator had authority at this site on the material date to issue PCNs and to pursue court proceedings in its own name.
7. A full breakdown of the amount claimed, identifying the original parking charge and each added sum, with an explanation and legal basis for any additional amounts over and above the parking charge (including any so-called “debt recovery” or “administration” fees).

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not accept any added sums beyond the parking charge (if any were ever properly incurred). Any attempt to recover additional fixed “debt recovery” sums will be treated as an attempt at double recovery and will be robustly opposed.

Hold on proceedings

Given that this is a disputed debt and I have requested documents essential to understanding your claim, you are required to place the matter on hold and provide the requested information. If you contend that you can proceed regardless, please explain precisely why, with reference to the Protocol.

Address for service

If you are holding or have used any address other than my correct address for service, treat this letter as a notification to rectify your records immediately. All future correspondence must be sent to this address and any other address must be erased:

[insert correct address]

If you issue a claim without first providing the information requested above and without allowing a reasonable period for me to consider it, I will draw that conduct to the court’s attention when costs are considered.

I look forward to your substantive response and the documents requested.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Postal address]
[Email address]

Also, make a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the DVLA to find out when they requested the Keeper details from them. Use this form (DVLA subject access request (SAR) MIS1065 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69494c30888ddc41b48a5484/make-a-subject-access-request-to-dvla-form-mis1065.pdf)) and email it to subjectaccess.requests@dvla.gov.uk. You only need to complete sections #1 and #3. For the box in section #1: "Tell us what specific information you need about your vehicles", enter the following:

Please provide details of all requests made for registered keeper data in respect of vehicle registration [VRM], including:
   – the name of the organisation or individual who requested the data,
   – the date and time of each request,
   – the reason stated for each request,
   – the legal basis relied upon (e.g. KADOE / reasonable cause),
   – and the address details disclosed by the DVLA in response to each request,
for the period 1 July 2025 to present.
Title: Recieved 'Letter before action' despite no other letters previously.
Post by: Never_Enough on December 27, 2025, 03:13:32 pm
I have received a  'letter before action' from 'civil enforcement.'

This relates to parking at a hospital for a visit on  1/9/2025

I  categorically have not received a letter before this, nothing to ask me to appeal or detailing anything of this.

When entering the hospital the number plate was very clearly entered into the machine.

I have  phoned the hospital and they said to ring back Monday and they can sort it out, but it seems a little far gone. Can they still get any parking charge cancelled at any point or was this the switchboard not understanding?

Just in case I figured I would post this here.

Car is mine and registered to my address and there is absolutely no reason why no previous letter should have reached me.

Not sure whether its relevant but the other pages detail other cases Beavis etc and also a page to tick a box if I dispute the debt wish to pay dispute part etc, I assume  this is standard stuff?

What is best to do here if the hospital cannot squash it?


Here is a link to the letter.

https://ibb.co/N6VRyfhv

Thanks.