Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: MST_UK on November 13, 2023, 11:15:27 pm
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Hi
I decided to pay the reduced charge. My original intention was to get the charge reduced to the initial amount as I did not receive the first letter.
Thank you everyone for your help
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I called LBBD today to check when the outstanding charge went up and was told it was on the 8th March and I was sent the letter in post which I haven't yet received.
The person was quite helpful and said they will reduce the charge to £65 (+£9) for the next two weeks.
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I can't find anything on the LBBD site that shows the date it was increased to £204.00
This is a red herring. Don't concern yourself with this.
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Thanks will do
I can't find anything on the LBBD site that shows the date it was increased to £204.00
Then best to submit to TEC as soon as you can.
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You can e mail I believe the form to: TEC@justice.gov.uk
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Thanks will do
I can't find anything on the LBBD site that shows the date it was increased to £204.00
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check PCN status online and see the date when it was upped to £204. You only have 21 days, I think to respond, then it goes into Out-of-Time and lots more trouble.
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Hi all,
I just checked online today and noticed the outstanding charge is now £204.00.
The last time I checked before today was 8th Feb when it was still £195
I've downloaded the PE3 form and completed (using LBBD as the applicant). I'll next arrange to get the form SWORN before sending off.
Should I wait to receive the next letter or just complete the above and send it off?
Thanks for your help
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Well, you could ring TEC to see of the PCN is registered yet, and the £195 is out-of-date, but that's about all, unless you want to ring the council to ask them when they are going to register the debt.
Don't ring the council, the longer the delay the better.
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Well, you could ring TEC to see of the PCN is registered yet, and the £195 is out-of-date, but that's about all, unless you want to ring the council to ask them when they are going to register the debt.
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Hi
I haven't had any further correspondence and yes online it is still showing as £195. I've been checking quite regularly
Should I do anything else or just wait?
Thanks
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MST - has this progressed any further?
I just had a look on the council website and it still says £195.
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MST - has this progressed any further?
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Thanks all
Will continue to wait for order for recovery
the LBBD website is still showing £195 currently
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The contents of the letter say it all. There is currently a serious complaint against them in terms of another case which is live. This is nasty stuff.
@OP: we are all behind you so just hold your nerve. :)
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The SD must be done first but i think i would try at tribunal with an abuse of process Telling lies in a letter must surely be that
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So can they continue to act unlawfully then ? Surely not !
There is no law that says they can't send that letter, not under the 2003 Act at least.
No wonder London councils continue to use the 2003 Act rather than the TMA 2004. And they can set their own PCN penalties too !
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So can they continue to act unlawfully then ? Surely not !
There is no law that says they can't send that letter, not under the 2003 Act at least.
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Note that this is not a parking case, so unlike the other thread, this letter does not amount to a procedural impropriety.
As above, you need to wait for the debt to go up to £204 before making a statutory declaration.
So can they continue to act unlawfully then ? Surely not !
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Note that this is not a parking case, so unlike the other thread, this letter does not amount to a procedural impropriety.
As above, you need to wait for the debt to go up to £204 before making a statutory declaration.
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Barking has 'form'; for this. See -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/dagenham-contravention-code-30-parked-too-long/msg11452/#msg11452
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This letter is verging on unlawful, or even IS unlawful. There is no stage in the PCN enforcement process defined in law that has a "reminder letter" stage. So not only is this unlawful intimidation, it also comes in between the Charge Certificate and the next, (and final), stage in the legal process, the Order for Recovery that is issued when the council register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (the "court"). At this final stage, the PCN recipient can submit a Statutory Declaration that will result in the matter reverting to the representations stage. Yet this letter says nothing at all about the Order for Recovery, merely stating that they will instruct bailiffs Yet they cannot do this until the debt is registered with TEC and an Order for Recovery sent out. The OfR still allows payment as well, so again, they have lied to the OP.
I find this sort of thing quite disgusting and the head of their traffic enforcement department should be getting the sack as a minimum action of the council to return this council to legality and probity.
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Nasty. Wait for the Order for Recovery. A dysfunctional outfit indeed.
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Hi,
I've received a letter today from London Borough of Barking and Dagenham
The charge is still showing as £195 on the website.
(https://i.imgur.com/FrD3CDj.jpg)
Do I just continue to wait or should I call them?
Thanks
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Thank you this is really helpful
will post here when I have an update
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The PCN is sat at £195 at the moment, keep an eye on https://parkingpayments.lbbd.gov.uk/3sc/ and as soon as it goes up to £204, you can download form PE3 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice), print if off, fill it in (remember the applicant is the council, not you) and tick the box to say you never got the PCN, then make an appointment with your local county court or magistrates' court to get it sworn (this is free), or for £5 / £10 any local solicitor can witness you sign it.
Once that's done scan the form and email it to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number in the subject line.
In theory you could wait for the paper copy to come in the post, but there's no reason to wait and there's no guarantees you won't have more postal problems, so you really don't want to rely on that.
When the amount due on the council website drops back down to £65, it means the PCN has been reissued. Let us know when this happens (you'll need to check once every 10 days or so after you've emailed TEC) and we'll help with a representation (again you should get a copy of the new PCN in the post, but you don't want to rely on that).
Any questions please ask.
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Hi all,
I originally posted this on Pepipoo forum and the FTLA forum was recommended to me as Pepipoo may go offline.
I received a Charge Certificate on 04/11/23 from Barking & Dagenham local authority for £195.
Alleged contravention: 53j Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (Camera Enforcement)
They mention that they sent a PCN on 28/9/23 but I did not receive this.
I'm assuming this would have been for a reduced charge if paid within 2 weeks?
I read a couple of previous posts and understand that I may need to wait now until I receive the next correspondence related to debt recovery? is this the case? Do I just do nothing now until I receive the next letter?
I really appreciate any advice on how to proceed
Thank you! :)
Images:
Charge certificate page 1 of 2
(https://i.imgur.com/mMNjJ1P.jpg)
Charge certificate page 2 of 2
(https://i.imgur.com/HQbYXJ6.jpg)
Image of road entrance from council evidence:
(https://i.imgur.com/8UERR32.jpg)
Google maps street view has not been updated yet and it appears that the pedestrian only school zones came into force earlier this year according to the councils website (section 7. Spurling road)<br>
https://www.lbbd.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-02/10285%20-%20School%20Streets%20NOM.pdf <br>
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Response received on Pepipoo forum so far:
You understand correctly, but whatever you do, don't now do nothing. Reason for this is that you never received the PCN, but received the CC. This indicates a possible mail problem, so you now need to be proactive.
At the end of the period allowed for payment of the CC, you need to phone TEC every week or so, quoting the PCN number, to find out if the debt has been registered. Once it has, you can submit your statutory declaration to TEC, (this might be a Witness Statement depending on what t he PCN was issued for). TEC will accept your submission, and t then cancel off the CC and OfR, and advise the council and yourself.
The council will send out an Order for Recovery once they have registered the debt, (this adds £9 to the CC amount). You can probably also look on the council website to see how much is owing on the PCN. Once it gets to £204, (£195 + £9), you know they have registered the debt. Problem with just waiting around for the OfR is that there is only a limited time to respond to it, and if it's late, you may not be able to submit an in-time declaration. Once things go out-of-time, it gets very difficult to revert the matter to PCN stage.
This post has been edited by Incandescent: Sat, 4 Nov 2023 - 11:50