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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Learner1 on December 22, 2025, 02:32:17 am

Title: Re: Urgent help-Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: b789 on December 30, 2025, 10:24:01 pm
Try sending it to litigation@moorsidelegal.co.uk.

At the same time also try sending to help@moorsideleagl.co.uk but with the following as the subject:

Quote
Data Subject Rights – [Your Name]

Add this at the very beginning (before “Dear Sirs,”). It creates a specific UK GDPR request they must action, not a general complaint:

Quote
DATA PROTECTION NOTICE (UK GDPR): I dispute the accuracy and lawfulness of your processing insofar as you are asserting or implying registered keeper liability for an airport-land charge. This letter constitutes (i) a request for restriction of processing under UK GDPR Article 18 pending verification/correction of the accuracy of your records, and (ii) an objection to processing under UK GDPR Article 21 in relation to any continued pursuit of me as keeper. Your published DPO email help@moorsidelegal.co.uk is deliberately bouncing; therefore you must confirm in writing within 7 days that (a) processing has been restricted as requested, and (b) this notice and the substantive response below have been forwarded to the appropriate department. Failing that, I will escalate to the ICO.
Title: Re: Urgent help-Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: Learner1 on December 30, 2025, 12:39:59 pm
You can stop panicking. This is a standard “fishing” exercise designed to make the registered keeper either pay or name the driver.

1. No keeper liability at Gatwick Airport
Gatwick Airport land is subject to statutory control (airport byelaws). That means it is not “relevant land” for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). Without relevant land, PoFA cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the registered keeper. In plain terms: if the driver has not been identified, they cannot hold the keeper liable. That is why the original NCP letter tries to pressure the keeper with “pay or name the driver” wording. There is no legal obligation to name the driver.

So provided the keeper has not identified the driver at any point, this matter is fundamentally stuck for them. They can only pursue the driver, and they do not know who that is.

2. The Moorside “Letter Before Claim” is not a proper Letter of Claim
That letter from the utter incompetents at Moorside is a template demand. A compliant Letter of Claim under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims must contain proper detail of the cause of action, a clear breakdown of the sum claimed, and the key documents they intend to rely upon (such as signage/terms and proof of landowner authority). What you have been sent does not do that. It reads like a payment invitation, not a protocol-compliant Letter of Claim.

3. Even if they issued a claim, it has minimal to zero chance of going to go to a hearing
They would have to plead a coherent cause of action against the keeper. Moorside are too incompetent and intellectually malnourished to do that properly. They cannot rely on PoFA, because Gatwick is not relevant land. If they try anyway, you defend on that basis and it is dead on arrival. This sort of case collapses long before any hearing because the keeper liability route is closed and they do not want the scrutiny of a defended claim where their paperwork and compliance will be examined.

4. What the Keeper should do now
Do NOT use their portal and do not ring them. Do NOT say who was driving. Do NOT get drawn into explaining the trip.

You should send a short, firm written response to Moorside along these lines:

• deny any keeper liability
• state the location is airport land subject to byelaws and therefore not relevant land under PoFA, so the keeper cannot be liable
• confirm the driver will not be identified
• state their letter is not compliant with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims and request they either close the file or issue a compliant Letter of Claim with the required documents (signage terms in force, site plan, landowner authority, full breakdown of sums and the legal basis for any add-ons)
• require all further contact in writing

That is enough. You are not trying to “argue the whole case” now. You are putting them on notice that (a) Keeper liability is denied and (b) you will not be naming the driver.

5. What NOT to do

• Do not pay “to make it go away” (that is what the template is designed to achieve).
• Do not say “I wasn’t the driver” or give any narrative that hints who was.
• Do not be tempted into long complaints about ANPR failures or autopay at this stage. The winning point is simpler: no keeper liability.

Bottom line
If the driver is not identified, this is not something to worry about. They are posturing. The keeper’s position is strong because airport land blocks PoFA keeper liability entirely, and Moorside’s letter is not a proper protocol Letter of Claim. If they were stupid enough to litigate against the Keeper, it is readily defensible and very unlikely to ever reach a hearing.

Send the following email response to the morons at Moorside to help@moorsidelegal.co.uk and CC yourself. If it bounces back with a "not monitored" response, just send it again until it does not receive that fake bounce response:

Quote
Subject: Response to your Letter Before Claim – Ref: [________] – National Car Parks Limited

Dear Sirs,

I am the registered keeper. Liability is denied. Any claim issued against the registered keeper will be defended in full as having no real prospects of success

1. No keeper liability (Gatwick Airport = non-relevant land)
Your client’s allegation concerns Gatwick Airport land, which is subject to statutory control and is not “relevant land” for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Accordingly, there is no lawful mechanism to transfer liability from an unidentified driver to the registered keeper. The driver will not be identified.

Your assertion that the keeper must either pay or name the driver is legally wrong and misleading. There is no legal obligation upon a keeper to identify a driver.

2. Your “Letter Before Claim” is non-compliant with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims
Your letter is a bare payment demand. It contains no meaningful detail of the alleged cause of action and encloses nothing at all.

In particular, you have failed to enclose the mandatory PAPDC documents (Information Sheet, Reply Form and Financial Statement) and you have provided none of the key documents which the Protocol requires a creditor to supply so that a debtor can understand the claim and obtain advice (including the contract/terms relied upon, evidence of signage, and proof of your client’s standing/authority at the location). This is not a compliant Letter of Claim.

3. Required action
Within 14 days of the date of this letter, you must either:

(a) confirm in writing that the matter is closed and that no further action will be taken against the registered keeper; or

(b) serve a fully compliant Letter of Claim, including the mandatory PAPDC enclosures, and providing (as a minimum) the following:

(i) your pleaded legal basis for pursuing the registered keeper despite PoFA being inapplicable on airport land;
(ii) copies of the Notice to Keeper and the full notice chain relied upon;
(iii) the precise contractual term(s) alleged to have been breached and an explanation of the alleged breach;
(iv) contemporaneous photographs of the signage in situ on the material date and a site plan showing the sign locations and the alleged location of the vehicle;
(v) the written agreement/chain of authority showing your client’s standing to operate, enforce and litigate in its own name at that precise location;
(vi) a full itemised breakdown of the sum demanded and the legal basis for any added sums.

4. Regulatory notice/further conduct
You are now on notice that continuing to pursue the registered keeper where no keeper liability can arise, and/or continuing to state or imply that the keeper is required to pay or identify the driver, will be treated as improper conduct. If you persist, I will submit a report to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and will rely upon your pre-action non-compliance and misleading assertions in any proceedings, including on the issue of costs and case management.

I will not engage via any portal. All correspondence must be in writing to the address above and/or by email to [your email address].

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Address]
[Date]
Dear b789
Apologies for the delay in responding.
I am very grateful for your thorough and detailed response. It helped me understand the whole situation.
I emailed the above-suggested response to Moorside Legal and am currently dealing with their bounce-back auto-response nonsense.
Any idea how many attempts it would take until their automated message stops coming back? I am replying to their message with the response above, but not with a new email each time. I hope it makes sense to you.
Thank you
Title: Re: Urgent help-Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: Learner1 on December 30, 2025, 11:46:11 am
Hold off sending that for the moment and wait for further advice.

The LoC is only dated 10th Dec 2025 so plenty of time.

Given that this is airport land there is no keeper liability. Of course the original PCN does not convey this information as it is not in their interest to present a balanced legal view of the situation. Instead they deliberately imply that the keeper could be pursued. They also specify that you must either pay the charge yourself or name the driver - there is no such legal requirement whatsoever.

With that in mind, others may suggest an amendment to the PoC response which makes it clear that keeper liability is denied.

Wait for further comments which may take slightly longer than normal due to Christmas commitments etc.
Dear InterCity125
Thank you so much for the response and for pointing out that the keeper's liability is denied.A sigh of relief.
Title: Re: Urgent help-Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: b789 on December 22, 2025, 07:58:02 pm
You can stop panicking. This is a standard “fishing” exercise designed to make the registered keeper either pay or name the driver.

1. No keeper liability at Gatwick Airport
Gatwick Airport land is subject to statutory control (airport byelaws). That means it is not “relevant land” for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). Without relevant land, PoFA cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the registered keeper. In plain terms: if the driver has not been identified, they cannot hold the keeper liable. That is why the original NCP letter tries to pressure the keeper with “pay or name the driver” wording. There is no legal obligation to name the driver.

So provided the keeper has not identified the driver at any point, this matter is fundamentally stuck for them. They can only pursue the driver, and they do not know who that is.

2. The Moorside “Letter Before Claim” is not a proper Letter of Claim
That letter from the utter incompetents at Moorside is a template demand. A compliant Letter of Claim under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims must contain proper detail of the cause of action, a clear breakdown of the sum claimed, and the key documents they intend to rely upon (such as signage/terms and proof of landowner authority). What you have been sent does not do that. It reads like a payment invitation, not a protocol-compliant Letter of Claim.

3. Even if they issued a claim, it has minimal to zero chance of going to go to a hearing
They would have to plead a coherent cause of action against the keeper. Moorside are too incompetent and intellectually malnourished to do that properly. They cannot rely on PoFA, because Gatwick is not relevant land. If they try anyway, you defend on that basis and it is dead on arrival. This sort of case collapses long before any hearing because the keeper liability route is closed and they do not want the scrutiny of a defended claim where their paperwork and compliance will be examined.

4. What the Keeper should do now
Do NOT use their portal and do not ring them. Do NOT say who was driving. Do NOT get drawn into explaining the trip.

You should send a short, firm written response to Moorside along these lines:

• deny any keeper liability
• state the location is airport land subject to byelaws and therefore not relevant land under PoFA, so the keeper cannot be liable
• confirm the driver will not be identified
• state their letter is not compliant with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims and request they either close the file or issue a compliant Letter of Claim with the required documents (signage terms in force, site plan, landowner authority, full breakdown of sums and the legal basis for any add-ons)
• require all further contact in writing

That is enough. You are not trying to “argue the whole case” now. You are putting them on notice that (a) Keeper liability is denied and (b) you will not be naming the driver.

5. What NOT to do

• Do not pay “to make it go away” (that is what the template is designed to achieve).
• Do not say “I wasn’t the driver” or give any narrative that hints who was.
• Do not be tempted into long complaints about ANPR failures or autopay at this stage. The winning point is simpler: no keeper liability.

Bottom line
If the driver is not identified, this is not something to worry about. They are posturing. The keeper’s position is strong because airport land blocks PoFA keeper liability entirely, and Moorside’s letter is not a proper protocol Letter of Claim. If they were stupid enough to litigate against the Keeper, it is readily defensible and very unlikely to ever reach a hearing.

Send the following email response to the morons at Moorside to help@moorsidelegal.co.uk and CC yourself. If it bounces back with a "not monitored" response, just send it again until it does not receive that fake bounce response:

Quote
Subject: Response to your Letter Before Claim – Ref: [________] – National Car Parks Limited

Dear Sirs,

I am the registered keeper. Liability is denied. Any claim issued against the registered keeper will be defended in full as having no real prospects of success

1. No keeper liability (Gatwick Airport = non-relevant land)
Your client’s allegation concerns Gatwick Airport land, which is subject to statutory control and is not “relevant land” for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Accordingly, there is no lawful mechanism to transfer liability from an unidentified driver to the registered keeper. The driver will not be identified.

Your assertion that the keeper must either pay or name the driver is legally wrong and misleading. There is no legal obligation upon a keeper to identify a driver.

2. Your “Letter Before Claim” is non-compliant with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims
Your letter is a bare payment demand. It contains no meaningful detail of the alleged cause of action and encloses nothing at all.

In particular, you have failed to enclose the mandatory PAPDC documents (Information Sheet, Reply Form and Financial Statement) and you have provided none of the key documents which the Protocol requires a creditor to supply so that a debtor can understand the claim and obtain advice (including the contract/terms relied upon, evidence of signage, and proof of your client’s standing/authority at the location). This is not a compliant Letter of Claim.

3. Required action
Within 14 days of the date of this letter, you must either:

(a) confirm in writing that the matter is closed and that no further action will be taken against the registered keeper; or

(b) serve a fully compliant Letter of Claim, including the mandatory PAPDC enclosures, and providing (as a minimum) the following:

(i) your pleaded legal basis for pursuing the registered keeper despite PoFA being inapplicable on airport land;
(ii) copies of the Notice to Keeper and the full notice chain relied upon;
(iii) the precise contractual term(s) alleged to have been breached and an explanation of the alleged breach;
(iv) contemporaneous photographs of the signage in situ on the material date and a site plan showing the sign locations and the alleged location of the vehicle;
(v) the written agreement/chain of authority showing your client’s standing to operate, enforce and litigate in its own name at that precise location;
(vi) a full itemised breakdown of the sum demanded and the legal basis for any added sums.

4. Regulatory notice/further conduct
You are now on notice that continuing to pursue the registered keeper where no keeper liability can arise, and/or continuing to state or imply that the keeper is required to pay or identify the driver, will be treated as improper conduct. If you persist, I will submit a report to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and will rely upon your pre-action non-compliance and misleading assertions in any proceedings, including on the issue of costs and case management.

I will not engage via any portal. All correspondence must be in writing to the address above and/or by email to [your email address].

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Address]
[Date]
Title: Re: Urgent help-Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: InterCity125 on December 22, 2025, 04:32:31 pm
Hold off sending that for the moment and wait for further advice.

The LoC is only dated 10th Dec 2025 so plenty of time.

Given that this is airport land there is no keeper liability. Of course the original PCN does not convey this information as it is not in their interest to present a balanced legal view of the situation. Instead they deliberately imply that the keeper could be pursued. They also specify that you must either pay the charge yourself or name the driver - there is no such legal requirement whatsoever.

With that in mind, others may suggest an amendment to the PoC response which makes it clear that keeper liability is denied.

Wait for further comments which may take slightly longer than normal due to Christmas commitments etc.
Title: Re: Urgent help-Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: Learner1 on December 22, 2025, 02:12:52 pm
After searching the forum, I came up with this response; please advise if this is the correct one. I would appreciate your input.
''Subject: Response to your Letter of Claim – Ref: [reference number]

Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of the evidence your client intends to rely upon. It is therefore non‑compliant with the Pre‑Action Protocol for Debt Claims (PAPDC). As a supposed firm of solicitors, one would expect you to comply with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions exist to facilitate informed, proportionate resolution, and I suggest you reacquaint yourselves with them.

The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre‑Action Conduct and Protocols (Part 3), require each party to exchange sufficient information to understand the other’s position. Part 6 clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute. Your template letter refers to a “contract” yet encloses none. That omission undermines the very basis upon which your client’s claim allegedly rests. It is not possible to engage in any form of meaningful pre‑litigation dialogue while you refuse to furnish the documents you purport to enforce.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with paragraph 3.1(a), I shall seek advice and submit a full response within 30 days. Accordingly, please now provide:

1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper and the full notice chain relied upon to assert any alleged PoFA 2012 liability.
2. An actual photograph of the sign(s) in situ on the material date (not stock images), together with a contemporaneous site map showing sign locations.
3. The precise wording of the contractual term(s) your client alleges were breached.
4. The written agreement between your client and the landowner evidencing authority to manage, enforce and litigate in their own name.
5. A clear breakdown of the sums claimed, identifying whether the principal amount is alleged consideration or damages, and clarifying the legal basis and VAT position of the Ł70 add‑on.

These documents are required under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction to enable me to meet my obligation under paragraph 6(b).

Your letter’s attempt at intimidation

I also note that your accompanying schedule manages to refer to a “CCJ” four times, in what is clearly intended as a coercive device rather than legitimate legal information. The repetition is telling: it demonstrates not confidence in your client’s position, but reliance on fear as a substitute for substance.

To be clear: I am fully aware that a County Court Judgment only arises after your client wins a claim (which is unlikely on the facts), and even then, any judgment paid within one calendar month is removed from the register and has no impact on credit. Your overuse of the term “CCJ” is therefore not only pointless but improper.

Your firm is on notice that this conduct will now be reported to:
• the Solicitors Regulation Authority, for use of misleading and oppressive tactics contrary to the SRA Code of Conduct; and
• the Competition and Markets Authority, under the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024, given the statutory prohibition on coercive and misleading commercial practices.

If you proceed to issue a claim without first providing the documents and information required under the PAPDC and Pre‑Action Conduct, I will draw your non‑compliance to the Court’s attention and seek appropriate sanctions, including a stay and case‑management orders pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction. Any unreasonable conduct by you or your client will be relied upon in support of an application for costs.

For the avoidance of doubt, I will not engage with any web portal. I will respond only via email or post.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]''

Thank you very much

Title: Re: Urgent help-Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: Learner1 on December 22, 2025, 02:08:27 pm
This is the orignal PCN received:
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/f5cbHkC_xl.jpg)

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/omVmlFs_xl.jpg)
Title: Re: Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: Learner1 on December 22, 2025, 01:58:35 pm
They're probably fishing for liability.

Given your wording, can we assume that the driver has never been identified?

As LoC's go, that one is a shocker and totally non-compliant with the required protocol.
Thank you for your response, InterCity125

No, RK did not communicate with NCP, so the driver was never identified.

I was wondering what response I should send to Moorside Legal at this stage.
Title: Re: Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: InterCity125 on December 22, 2025, 08:43:40 am
They're probably fishing for liability.

Given your wording, can we assume that the driver has never been identified?

As LoC's go, that one is a shocker and totally non-compliant with the required protocol.
Title: Urgent help-Letter Before Claim-Moorside Legal on Behalf of NCP Gatwick
Post by: Learner1 on December 22, 2025, 02:32:17 am
Dear all,

I would appreciate your help with this matter.

The vehicle is registered with NCP at Gatwick Airport under Autopay. On this occasion, the ANPR system failed to capture the number plate, and a PCN was issued in error.

As the registered keeper (RK) was away at the time, they were unable to appeal or have the issue corrected by NCP. Subsequently, multiple letters were received from Marston Recovery, followed by a Letter Before Claim from Moorside Legal a couple of days ago.

The Letter Before Claim does not specify a deadline for contacting or anything, but it requests payment.

Please could you advise on the next steps the RK should take to respond?

Thank you very much

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/rx242VR_xl.jpeg)
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/UTKBnD9_xl.jpeg)